Inadvertent whistle

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

4-36-1
Point of interruption: Method of resuming play due to officials INADVERTENT WHISTLE...

(This ruling brought to you courtesy of the 2012-13 NFHS iphone app)

You do realize that POI can be an AP application right?

Peace

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It is actually called an accidental whistle. Inadvertent whistle is a football term.

With that being said, they go to the AP if he blew the whistle for a violation and the ball was not in possession. Team A would get the ball if they had the arrow. But it does not sound like that might not have been the case here.

Peace

The ball was still in TC, even if it wasn't in PC (or "posession.")

Use POI for an IW. Since there was TC, it goes back to A for a throw-in.

[Bad Zebra]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You do realize that POI can be an AP application right?

Peace

Yes. I was just confirming that the term Inadvertent Whistle was in fact a basketball term (since I have been using for many years)

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The ball was still in TC, even if it wasn't in PC (or "posession.")

Use POI for an IW. Since there was TC, it goes back to A for a throw-in.

I concur. The only caveat with respect to the question asked by the OP is that the throw-in for team A will be at the OOB spot nearest to where the ball was located when the whistle sounded. This may not result in a throw-in on the endline. In this instance, where the original throw-in came from is not a factor in deciding from where to award the new throw-in.

[Bad Zebra]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The ball was still in TC, even if it wasn't in PC (or "posession.")

Use POI for an IW. Since there was TC, it goes back to A for a throw-in.

Ha! Alphabet soup!

[maven]

Originally Posted by Adam

Does team control continue after B1 tips the ball?

Yes.

And, even if it didn't, in the OP team A seems to be in player control of the ball when the IW is blown, and thus has team control.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It is actually called an accidental whistle. Inadvertent whistle is a football term.

I have a 2011 NFHS rule book handy here at work. 4-36-1 says "inadvertent."

[OKREF]

A few years back it changed to "inadvertent", but at one time it was "accidental". Not sure what year it changed, but it has changed. If you try to search accidental on the NFHS App, nothing shows up.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The ball was still in TC, even if it wasn't in PC (or "posession.")

Use POI for an IW. Since there was TC, it goes back to A for a throw-in.

(EDIT: My comment below is only in reference to the point about their being team control or not, not what you do with the IW)


Is that really true now since they basically said all other rules are as they were as before on that issue where the only thing that changes is that you can have a team control foul during a throwin....which is not necessarily the same as having team control. (You can have a PC foul without PC in the case of an airborne shooter).

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Is that really true now since they basically said all other rules are they were as before on that the only thing that changes is that you can have a team control foul during a throwin....which is not necessarily the same as having team control. (You can have a PC foul without PC in the case of an airborne shooter).

After B1 tips the ball and while it is rolling loose, A2 pushes B2. Do we have a Team Control foul?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Is that really true now since they basically said all other rules are they were as before on that the only thing that changes is that you can have a team control foul during a throwin....which is not necessarily the same as having team control. (You can have a PC foul without PC in the case of an airborne shooter).

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

After B1 tips the ball and whiling it is rolling loose, A2 pushes B2. Do we have a Team Control foul?

Of course, but that is due to the NFHS modifying the definition of a team control foul this season as opposed to the definition of team control last season.

Camron is referring to this passage from the changes of this season:

A team-control foul is a common foul committed by a team that has team control (including a member of the throw-in team from the start of the throw-in until player control is obtained inbounds). Rationale: The committee adopted a team-control rule change for last season which introduced some complications for a number of other rules. These complications were handled through interpretations last year. The addition of this parenthetical statement allows all rules affected by the team-control definition change last season to revert to their previous verbiage and brings the rule in line with the interpretations that were released last year.

Unfortunately, the NFHS did NOT change all of the affected rules back to their previous verbiage. Thus we have a situation in which we obtain different rulings by following the above guidance or what the text in the current rules book actually says.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Of course, but that is due to the NFHS modifying the definition of a team control foul this season as opposed to the definition of team control last season.
...

Which is why I would give the ball back to the throw-in team if we have an IW instead of a foul in this situation.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Unfortunately, the NFHS did NOT change all of the affected rules back to their previous verbiage. Thus we have a situation in which we obtain different rulings by following the above guidance or what the text in the current rules book actually says.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Which is why I would give the ball back to the throw-in team if we have an IW instead of a foul in this situation.

Would you do that under the rules which were in place for the 2010-11 season? The definitions of player and team control were different.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Would you do that under the rules which were in place for the 2010-11 season? The definitions of player and team control were different.

I don't think retroactively

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bainsey

I have a 2011 NFHS rule book handy here at work. 4-36-1 says "inadvertent."

Originally Posted by OKREF

A few years back it changed to "inadvertent", but at one time it was "accidental". Not sure what year it changed, but it has changed. If you try to search accidental on the NFHS App, nothing shows up.

After doing some research this is absolutely true. They did used to only use accidental whistle previously and it appears they have corrected this in almost every example or interpretation in the rulebook and casebook.

Still with that being said I still think that you go to the AP as all the rule did was change to what we classify a foul, not what happens in the situation with the ball. And since this is not a foul situation, the team is really not in Team Control as they would not be as it relates to a back court situation either. I also cannot find a specific casebook play at this time to dispute either action. Again my rational is the ball is loose at the time of the whistle off the throw-in. It might not be fair, but that is what the rules states for this remedy at this time.

Peace