The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 04, 2012, 09:53pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 480
Illegal, unsportsmanlike substitution.

I witnessed this at a middle school game last night. I was sitting in the stands with no game responsibilities.

Near the end of the game. Team B (visitors) is leading by 3. Player on team B (#44) is fouled and is shooting 2 shots. First inept looking shot misses badly. Team B calls full time out. After the time out a different player (# 42) goes to the line and strokes in second free throw. Referees do not notice any of this.

I only umpire baseball so my knowledge of basketball is somewhat limited but I assume that it is one or both referees responsibility to catch this infraction and penalize accordingly.

My question is if I were the official scorer (a task which I do from time to time) and I notice a case like this which goes unnoticed by the officials, can or should I bring it to the attention of the officials and if so, when?

Also just out of curiosity, what would the imposed penalties be in this case?
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 04, 2012, 10:25pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Ontario
Posts: 559
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbmartin View Post
I witnessed this at a middle school game last night. I was sitting in the stands with no game responsibilities.

Near the end of the game. Team B (visitors) is leading by 3. Player on team B (#44) is fouled and is shooting 2 shots. First inept looking shot misses badly. Team B calls full time out. After the time out a different player (# 42) goes to the line and strokes in second free throw. Referees do not notice any of this.

I only umpire baseball so my knowledge of basketball is somewhat limited but I assume that it is one or both referees responsibility to catch this infraction and penalize accordingly.

My question is if I were the official scorer (a task which I do from time to time) and I notice a case like this which goes unnoticed by the officials, can or should I bring it to the attention of the officials and if so, when?

Also just out of curiosity, what would the imposed penalties be in this case?

Technical foul charged to 42. 10-3-6-f.

Piss poor situational awareness by the officials. This should never happen. Timeout should never be granted without the officials knowing who the shooter is nor should play have been resumed without the crew confirming who was at the line.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 04, 2012, 11:00pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
1. The officials should have caught this.

2. This is a disturbing lack of ethics the coach is teaching these kids.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 05, 2012, 12:02am
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 14,840
After the made free throw I would have no problem with you hitting the horn to bring it to out attention
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 05, 2012, 05:44am
Fav theme: Roundball Rock
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Near Dog River (sorta)
Posts: 8,558
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
After the made free throw I would have no problem with you hitting the horn to bring it to our attention
Same here.

To the OP:

I suggest that the calling officials adjust their timeout granting procedure to verbally identify the shooter right after you verbally identify a timeout. Inform your partner who the shooter is, and inform the table at the very end of reporting.

After the timeout is over and the shooting team the huddle, ID the correct player and watch him approach the line. Intervene if necessary.
__________________
Pope Francis
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 05, 2012, 08:12am
Medium Kahuna
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: At home
Posts: 791
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
After the made free throw I would have no problem with you hitting the horn to bring it to out attention
And at that point, it's one of the five correctable error situations, and we don't have to assess a T. Might want to...
__________________
Never trust an atom: they make up everything.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 05, 2012, 09:57pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 14,995
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
After the made free throw I would have no problem with you hitting the horn to bring it to out attention
I would prefer a horn as soon as the wrong FT shooter is given the ball.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maven View Post
And at that point, it's one of the five correctable error situations, and we don't have to assess a T. Might want to...
Why do you not have to charge a technical foul to someone who deliberately infringes upon this rule?
Isn't that enforcing the rules as written?
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 06, 2012, 08:09am
Medium Kahuna
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: At home
Posts: 791
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
Why do you not have to charge a technical foul to someone who deliberately infringes upon this rule?
Isn't that enforcing the rules as written?
There's room for official's judgment on just this point. I can think of some middle school games I've done where the coach and players were so thoroughly clueless that this might have happened by accident.

In most instances I'd agree with you that we should get it.
__________________
Never trust an atom: they make up everything.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 06, 2012, 09:49am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Missouri
Posts: 671
My question would be, at what point do you call the technical? If the wrong shooter steps up and you catch it, should you wack him? Or just fix the situation?
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 06, 2012, 10:00am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by ballgame99 View Post
My question would be, at what point do you call the technical? If the wrong shooter steps up and you catch it, should you wack him? Or just fix the situation?
Judg\ment and what's happened in the game (and with this team) before.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
illegal Substitution or illegal Participation verticalStripes Football 11 Fri Sep 12, 2008 10:57am
Illegal Substitution or Nothing? golfdesigner Football 13 Wed Oct 03, 2007 02:09pm
Illegal Substitution? Viking32 Football 7 Wed Oct 08, 2003 05:01pm
Illegal participation or unsportsmanlike Hansman Football 7 Mon Sep 16, 2002 10:35am
Illegal Substitution??? FSCoach Baseball 14 Wed May 15, 2002 06:13pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:23am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1