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No sir, I wasnt referencing you as one that loves to smack me around for saying things they have not heard before. Rocky co-signed it so I doubt we will hear from them on this On quietly vs loud, I have a mental rolodex of my partners & what they prefer. The ECA (Exclusive Coverage Area) guys I would try to walk by in switching before they get to the table & say it quietly. Guys that are on board with the program, I'll say it right where I stand because I know they'll say "YEP" without needing to ask & clarify just to reject. As far as if they had the foul before the gather, they need to call it before the player gets in the act & the ball goes in using some voice to clarify that fact. Making everyone think its an And1 when its really a do over is a sure set up to get the coach, players & crowd all over the crew. That will happen more than enough without the officials doing it to themselves. So either cal those when they happen or hold the whistle a tad, allowing the player to get in the motion then reward them. We have to know what animal (level/gender) we are dealing with & I'm learning that we also have to know what type of partner we are dealing with from night to night. As long as the film shows me trying to offer info, I'm okay with a partner rejecting the info & messing up the call consistency. Because when I get a similar play, mine go to the line.
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I gotta new attitude! Last edited by tref; Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 01:20pm. |
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Hahahaha...having me co-sign on something with you is a GREAT way to get smacked around by some of the people on this forum!!
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Nah just like myself, they respect what you bring to the table!
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I gotta new attitude! |
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"Everyone has a purpose in life, even if it's only to serve as a bad example." "If Opportunity knocks and he's not home, Opportunity waits..." "Don't you have to be stupid somewhere else?" "Not until 4." "The NCAA created this mess, so let them live with it." (JRutledge) |
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Now that I think about it, I was introduced to the principle by a DI/DII womens official a couple years ago.
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I gotta new attitude! Last edited by tref; Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 03:52pm. |
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I was just looking for your explanation and what you meant. Nothing more, nothing less. Quote:
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I just would have been simple if you stated what you were talking about. Peace
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Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) |
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Can't Live With Them ...
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) “I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36) Last edited by BillyMac; Tue Jul 17, 2012 at 06:18am. |
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Really? NCAAW is where I heard it...
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A-hole formerly known as BNR |
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I disagree with Camron and Nevada quite often but it is not b/c I believe I've been exposed to some greater level teachings than they have. I was in camp this weekend and we discussed when and how to give info (including a play in which a shooting foul was changed to a non-shooting foul) and based on the address listed in our packet one of the clinicians I'm sure is a very, very good friend/mentor of JRut.
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A-hole formerly known as BNR Last edited by Raymond; Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 10:58pm. |
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As I think about it I've heard it from NCAAM officials when I work with them in H.S. games. I've yet to hear it from the NCAAW officials but I'll ask around over the weekend.
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"Everyone has a purpose in life, even if it's only to serve as a bad example." "If Opportunity knocks and he's not home, Opportunity waits..." "Don't you have to be stupid somewhere else?" "Not until 4." "The NCAA created this mess, so let them live with it." (JRutledge) |
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To be clear, what I wrote in my previous post was strictly for the HS level. This being the summer a large number of people are attending camps with college and NBA officals. They are paying good money to hear the instruction and thoughts of those people--what you refer to as philosophies. The point which I desire to make crystal clear is that those philosophies may be fully appropriate at those levels of play, but can also be fully inappropriate for the local HS game on Friday night. What concerns me is that people may substitute some of these philosophies for proper rule application. This happens frequently when things "trickle down" from the pro and college levels of play to the HS officials. The point which we have been debating about (when to award FTs and when not to) definitely falls into that area. The pro rules support a certain way of handling this, the college assignors have their specific instruction--such as the PAC-12 issued last year (a desire for more FTs to be awarded), and the HS level has its own standard. There is a danger in taking a philosophy heard at a camp presented by someone from one level and applying that in a game at another level. I've been to several of those clinics/camps and spoken to numerous officials at the NBA, D-league, and NCAA D1 levels. They all have excellent advice to offer. However, one needs to do his/her own thinking and own reading to determine if what was just heard will be useful at the level that individual is working. Another concern of mine is that just because someone is consistent in calling a play a certain way, doesn't make that person correct or accurate according to the given rules source. A great example of this took place a few years ago when it was obvious that several NCAA officials followed their personal philosophies that a player could not have a legitimate defensive position under the basket and called blocking fouls or nothing, when the correct call per the NCAA rules at that time was a charging foul. This eventually forced the rules committee to change the rule and now the NCAA has a version of the pro arc on the floor near the basket. This was definitely a philosophy that trickled down from the pro game to the college game, which was not supported by the NCAA rules. The danger now is that HS officials are doing exactly what these NCAA officials did a few years ago and ignoring the NFHS rules. That makes things confusing for the players and coaches at the HS level, and the NFHS has even issued a statement that using individual philosophies is improper (POE a couple of seasons ago). |
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I will just say this.
Everything I do as an official at the college level is pretty much the exact same thing I do at the HS level. My main college supervisor is also the head clinician and rules interpreter for the state. The things he talks about that we need to do as it relates to calls are the same things he talks about in supervisor meetings. I understand that people who primarily do HS basketball often think what we do at the college level is completely foreign. Actually almost all the directives from college like the "absolutes" that John Adams has mentioned in the past 3 or 4 seasons have been POEs in NF Rules. Obviously there are some rules differences, but in basketball there are so minor or insignificant this is on the issue in this discussion. The wording for continuous motion is practically the same between college and HS. Both codes even use the term habitual movement or motion as an example of when the shooting starts. Also the three leg philosophy is not a college philosophy. It is an officiating philosophy. I learned these years ago from a football official and heard the same thing said in a basketball meeting by another official. The rules are not always adequate to explain what should be done or promote consistency. I must also make it clear that I am a State Clinician in Basketball as well. All the clinicians in basketball met in April and were given a video about situations and plays and many of the things we discussed and these kinds of things were discussed and philosophies used. Now we are always going to have people across the country that will go to camps and here things or think that they hear things that are only that they will hear at a camp where they paid a lot of money to attend. Or they will hear something from an NBA official and think it does not apply to the level they are working. The basic game that we see at the NBA level is the same as college basketball, is the same we see at the HS level when it comes to contact and even philosophy with contact. Actually all the directives that the NF have used have been NBA philosophies and applications. Now watching the USA-Brazil game last night I am not sure that FIBA uses those same philosophies, but I digress. Peace
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Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) |
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