On the shot or not

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

How do players ever throw a pass in the games which you officiate?


You are new, so you will learn that this is a gray area, but what you wrote isn't accurate. The start of the act of shooting does not equate to the end of the dribble. The official needs to see some motion that indicates throwing for goal. (That can include pivoting movement.)

My point is that there needs to be more than just gathering the ball after the dribble.

True, but if there is such indication, the shooting motion likely will have started at the gather.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

True, but if there is such indication, the shooting motion likely will have started at the gather.

We can have a nice debate about this and likely not come to a consensus, but I'll post the text of the rule and give my opinion of what it means.


Rule 4

SECTION 41 SHOOTING, TRY, TAP

ART. 1 . . .

The act of shooting begins simultaneously with the start of the try

or tap and ends when the ball is clearly in flight, and includes the airborne
shooter.

ART. 2 . . .

A try for field goal is an attempt by a player to score two or three points by throwing the ball into a team’s own basket. A player is trying for goal

when the player has the ball and in the official’s judgment is throwing or
attempting to throw for goal. It is not essential that the ball leave the player’s hand
as a foul could prevent release of the ball.

ART. 3 . . .

The try starts when the player begins the motion which habitually
precedes the release of the ball.

So it is a judgment call by rule and what exactly is meant by "motion which habitually precedes the release"?

Obviously the ball must be gathered prior to the release, but that doesn't equate to throwing for goal as a player must also gather the ball to pass it. I want to see a little more. I desire to see the players arms/hands do something which indicates the desire to shoot. On a jumpshot, I look for the hand to come under the ball as wrist is cocked back to shoot. On a layup or scoop shot near the basket, I look for upward movement of the arms towards the basket.

Both of those actions are very different from the mere grasping of the ball with the hands in ending a dribble. Usually that is done with the palms downward towards the floor. Shooting is done with a palm pointing upward.

These aren't all encompassing and to me are only indicators of a try, but they are also more informative, and I believe more correct per the rules, than simply looking for a gathering of the ball.

I'm not going to award FTs to a player who is driving through the lane with the ball safely tucked away in his arms and belly like a football running back when the opponent fouls him.

Now Snaqs, what are your thoughts?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Obviously the ball must be gathered prior to the release, but that doesn't equate to throwing for goal as a player must also gather the ball to pass it. I want to see a little more. I desire to see the players arms/hands do something which indicates the desire to shoot. On a jumpshot, I look for the hand to come under the ball as wrist is cocked back to shoot. On a layup or scoop shot near the basket, I look for upward movement of the arms towards the basket.

Both of those actions are very different from the mere grasping of the ball with the hands in ending a dribble. Usually that is done with the palms downward towards the floor. Shooting is done with a palm pointing upward.

These aren't all encompassing and to me are only indicators of a try, but they are also more informative, and I believe more correct per the rules, than simply looking for a gathering of the ball.

I'm not going to award FTs to a player who is driving through the lane with the ball safely tucked away in his arms and belly like a football running back when the opponent fouls him.

Now Snaqs, what are your thoughts?

Primarily, we seem to be on the same page. The only thing I would add is that my whistle will (normally) be slow enough that I've seen enough action to judge what his intent was when he got fouled. On most drives, the gather for a layup isn't that different than a gather for a pass, so a slower whistle can help me make the right call. That said, I would grant shots to a player who had merely gathered on this play at the point of the foul, provided he follows that fairly quickly with an attempt at the movements of a shot.

Now, if their running in behind the left tackle, that's different.