Last second shot

[wyo96]

I am attending camp next week and am reviewing rules and situations and I need confirmation or correction. THANKS.

End of game, Team A down by 3. A1 is rising to shoot a 3 pointer. (A1 is an airborne shooter in all examples)

1: Foul by B1, time expires, ball released, shot made (in this order)

2: Ball released, Foul by B1, time expires, shot made

3: Ball released, time expires, foul by B1, shot missed

My interpretation below... with the rules and exceptions for live/dead ball and airborne shooter, these gave me pause...








1: No basket, shoot 3 FT to see if we go to OT

2: Basket good, shoot one to see if Team A win or OT

3: Same as 1, shoot 3 (or less if there is a miss) for OT

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by wyo96

I am attending camp next week and am reviewing rules and situations and I need confirmation or correction. THANKS.

End of game, Team A down by 3. A1 is rising to shoot a 3 pointer. (A1 is an airborne shooter in all examples)

1: Foul by B1, time expires, ball released, shot made (in this order)

2: Ball released, Foul by B1, time expires, shot made

3: Ball released, time expires, foul by B1, shot missed

1. Shot does not count. Shoot 3 FTs.

2. Shoot 1 FT with no one on the line and see if you are going to overtime or game is over.

3. I believe game over (unless someone can find the rule to clarify) unless you feel the foul on B1 was intentional. I will have to look this up for further clarification.

I would not worry so much about any of these plays. These are situations that do not happen every day and are going to come down to judgment anyway.

Peace

Wyo96 - No rules interpreter here, but it sounds about right.

JRut - per Wyo96 "A1 is an airborne shooter in all examples"

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

3. I believe game over (unless someone can find the rule to clarify) unless you feel the foul on B1 was intentional. I will have to look this up for further clarification.

Gotta disagree with this one. The ball is live on the shot until it goes in, even though the horn went. Any foul on the airborne shooter can be called until the shot is made or missed.

Case book play 5.6CommentA--"The expiration of time for a quarter or extra period does not always cause the ball to become dead nor end the quarter or extra period........If there is a foul after time expires and before the ball becomes dead, the quarter or extra period ends after the resulting free throw(s)."

The correct call is 3 FT's for the shooter with no one lined up,

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by wyo96

1: Foul by B1, time expires, ball released, shot made (in this order)

What if you know you blew the whistle for the foul before the horn sounded, but A1 continues the motion. . .?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by wyo96

I am attending camp next week and am reviewing rules and situations and I need confirmation or correction. THANKS.

End of game, Team A down by 3. A1 is rising to shoot a 3 pointer. (A1 is an airborne shooter in all examples)

1: Foul by B1, time expires, ball released, shot made (in this order)

Should we put time back on the clock?

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

What if you know you blew the whistle for the foul before the horn sounded, but A1 continues the motion. . .?

Quiet, you rabble-rouser!

Seriously, though, do we have to argue these again?

[wyo96]

I agree that these may not come up often, but it was one I wanted to get right. Thanks for feed back. I may have more as I brush up before camp.

FWIW... I am going to the Dave Hall camp at the University of Wyoming. Dave is a D1 official and there will be both D1 and HS evaluators. I work HS and MS, but I am looking forward to the interaction and education from both groups.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by wyo96

I agree that these may not come up often, but it was one I wanted to get right. Thanks for feed back. I may have more as I brush up before camp.

These situations may not come up very often, but when they do they directly impact on the outcome of the game. If you screw it up, it'll be the only thing anybody will ever recall about the game.

I had a partner completely blow a rule on a last second shot in a tied league championship game. He wiped off a basket because the clock showed 0 before the shot was off, but the horn was after the shot was released. We went to overtime and the other team won. It's not often true that the refs give the game away, but we did that day because we were all honked up about what to do about a situation at the buzzer. The outcome would have been right if even one member of the crew had known the correct rule and applied it. I'm still flogging myself over that one.

Originally Posted by wyo96

FWIW... I am going to the Dave Hall camp at the University of Wyoming. Dave is a D1 official and there will be both D1 and HS evaluators. I work HS and MS, but I am looking forward to the interaction and education from both groups.

I've gone to Dave's camp at USU several times. He puts on a great camp and I always learn a lot. Do yourself a favor and find which gym Ray Lutz is evaluating in. Go sit at his feet and listen to everything he says. Seriously.

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

I had a partner completely blow a rule on a last second shot in a tied league championship game. He wiped off a basket because the clock showed 0 before the shot was off, but the horn was after the shot was released.

Is that not correct procedure? Clock reads 00:00 & the ball is still in the shooters hand with a late horn... ball is dead, no shot huh?

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

Is that not correct procedure? Clock reads 00:00 & the ball is still in the shooters hand with a late horn... ball is dead, no shot huh?

Well the quarter ends when the horn sounds, so the basket should've counted.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

Is that not correct procedure? Clock reads 00:00 & the ball is still in the shooters hand with a late horn... ball is dead, no shot huh?

Here's a little saying that might help you remember the correct rule on this:

"When it comes to balls at the end, don't be a zero, be horny."

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Here's a little saying that might help you remember the correct rule on this:

"When it comes to balls at the end, don't be a zero, be horny."

So this is where rainmaker got that colorful saying from.

[wyo96]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

These situations may not come up very often, but when they do they directly impact on the outcome of the game. If you screw it up, it'll be the only thing anybody will ever recall about the game.

I've gone to Dave's camp at USU several times. He puts on a great camp and I always learn a lot. Do yourself a favor and find which gym Ray Lutz is evaluating in. Go sit at his feet and listen to everything he says. Seriously. .

I agree. I am striving to get all the rules right. I know I may miss a call, but I don't want to miss a rule!!

Thanks, I see Ray is on the list for Laramie so I will try to do that. I am very excited about this camp.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

Is that not correct procedure? Clock reads 00:00 & the ball is still in the shooters hand with a late horn... ball is dead, no shot huh?

The horn wasn't late. Older game clocks (from the era before tenths of a second) come in two varieties: those that change the number at the start of the second, and those that change the number at the end of the second. If it changes at the beginning, it'll turn over to zero nearly a full second before the horn goes off.

If you think of it in terms of tenths of a second, it makes more obvious sense. It's not really 0:00, it's 0:00.9, 0.00.8, etc. on down to 0:00.0. But all the clock shows is 0:00.