Tonight's game

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

I see your point too. Good one. In my mind catching a ball on a sprint doesn't give the player much time to get the ball out of their hand nor stop on one foot. I understand the jump stop part. Just saying there is no way to know what the player is going to do and if he starts the dribble in the air in this situation I am passing. It is hard to see how you can call a travel if the player has only ever had one foot on the floor.

Just fleshing this out a bit:
1. A1, on the run, catches with the right foot on the floor.
2. A1 lifts that foot in his run.
3. A1 starts his dribble.
4. A1 puts his left foot down as part of his run.

On step four, his right foot became the pivot, retroactively.
He had lifted that pivot before the dribble started.
Travel.

Other play where we retroactively learn of a travel:
A1 catches the ball, pivots, lifts his pivot foot, and then releases a pass towards A2, who has run away from the area.
A1 runs to retrieve the ball.

This is a travel because A1 lifted his pivot before starting his dribble. (The throw in should be at the spot nearest where his pivot foot was lifted.)

[Sharpshooternes]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Just fleshing this out a bit:
1. A1, on the run, catches with the right foot on the floor.
2. A1 lifts that foot in his run.
3. A1 starts his dribble.
4. A1 puts his left foot down as part of his run.

On step four, his right foot became the pivot, retroactively.
He had lifted that pivot before the dribble started.
Travel.

Other play where we retroactively learn of a travel:
A1 catches the ball, pivots, and then releases a pass towards A2, who has run away from the area.
A1 runs to retrieve the ball.

This is a travel because A1 lifted his pivot before starting his dribble. (The throw in should be at the spot nearest where his pivot foot was lifted.)

I still don't agree with you in the first case and even if I did, I still wouldn't call it because it would be bang bang.

As for the second one, can't you take as many steps during a dribble as you want. Ball is out of his hands, he hasn't used his dribble yet, I think this should be legit as well, as long as he passed the ball before lifting the pivot foot and hasn't used his dribble already.

[Sharpshooternes]

How bout this one?
Adam Coble Basketball Breakaway Dunk - YouTube Skip to 0:30

[Sharpshooternes]

Or this one.
C.J. Fair's Dunk Vs. Cornell - YouTube

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

I still don't agree with you in the first case and even if I did, I still wouldn't call it because it would be bang bang.

As for the second one, can't you take as many steps during a dribble as you want. Ball is out of his hands, he hasn't used his dribble yet, I think this should be legit as well, as long as he passed the ball before lifting the pivot foot and hasn't used his dribble already.

Sorry, I meant to add that he lifts his pivot foot before releasing that pass.

And I agree about the likelihood of calling it. As I noted before, if the dribble somehow starts in the moment between the pivot foot going up and the other foot coming down, I'm not likely to call it because I don't think I'm that good. It's just too close, and I don't like calling travels where I need slow motion replay to justify it.

[Sharpshooternes]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Sorry, I meant to add that he lifts his pivot foot before releasing that pass.

Fair enough. Travel.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

And I agree about the likelihood of calling it. As I noted before, if the dribble somehow starts in the moment between the pivot foot going up and the other foot coming down, I'm not likely to call it because I don't think I'm that good. It's just too close, and I don't like calling travels where I need slow motion replay to justify it.

I still think it is not a travel because that one foot is not "technically" a pivot foot. What did you have for the two videos I posted? Where in the rules does it say you can retroactively call that a travel? Your first scenario is retroactive. The second is not retroactive. They just started a dribble after lifting the pivot foot and the ball bounced multiple times before they touched it. I think these are very different scenarios.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

Fair enough. Travel.



I still think it is not a travel because that one foot is not "technically" a pivot foot. What did you have for the two videos I posted? Where in the rules does it say you can retroactively call that a travel? Your first scenario is retroactive. The second is not retroactive. They just started a dribble after lifting the pivot foot and the ball bounced multiple times before they touched it. I think these are very different scenarios.

It's retroactive in that the travel happens when the dribble starts, but the call could come 50 feet and 8 minutes (conceivably) later.

I honestly couldn't get a good view, but I'm not sure if it's the laptop I'm using or the connection I'm using. At full speed, they looked like they were probably travels but I wouldn't be able to call them because I don't know for sure.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Just fleshing this out a bit:
1. A1, on the run, catches with the right foot on the floor.
2. A1 lifts that foot in his run.
3. A1 starts his dribble.
4. A1 puts his left foot down as part of his run.

On step four, his right foot became the pivot, retroactively.
He had lifted that pivot before the dribble started.
Travel.

Disagree. You have to establish a pivot foot BEFORE the pivot foot restrictions are in effect....and a pivot foot can only be established while holding the ball. Except for one case, all traveling situations occur while holding the ball. If the ball has been released on a dribble before a pivot foot and the restriction on a pivot foot exist, it can't be a travel. Legal play.

EDIT: Additionally, after lifting the first foot, it would still be legal if the player, while still holding the ball, were to come down on both feet simultaneously and even then start a dribble. Why? No pivot was established at all.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Other play where we retroactively learn of a travel:
A1 catches the ball, pivots, lifts his pivot foot, and then releases a pass towards A2, who has run away from the area.
A1 runs to retrieve the ball.

This is a travel because A1 lifted his pivot before starting his dribble. (The throw in should be at the spot nearest where his pivot foot was lifted.)

Agree.

[Sharpshooternes]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Disagree. You have to establish a pivot foot BEFORE the pivot foot restrictions are in effect....and a pivot foot can only be established while holding the ball. Except for one case, all traveling situations occur while holding the ball. If the ball has been released on a dribble before a pivot foot and the restriction on a pivot foot exist, it can't be a travel. Legal play.

Agreed with this. Now if his other foot hits before he gets the ball out for a dribble that would be a travel as he has caught on one foot and the second landing makes the first his pivot according to 4-44-2-b-1.