The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 10, 2012, 01:16pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,183
Bang-bang

I had game last night where Team A milked a minute or more off the clock each possession. When they finally shot the ball & missed they pressured the defensive rebounder in the backcourt. The slow down tactic became frustrating to Team B (who was a much better team record wise & won by 4 in OT). Late in the game A2 missed a gimmie & applied too much pressure on B5. I called the foul & immediately after the whistle B5 caught him with an unintentional but "get off me" elbow in the chops. We have blood on the court & I report the foul.

As we wait for the clean up on aisle 3 my partner (DII-W) asks if I'm just calling the foul on A2 or did I think about tacking on a dead ball INT technical to B5??

Has anyone had this situation? And did you tack on the other foul?
__________________
I gotta new attitude!
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 10, 2012, 01:22pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Denver Colorado
Posts: 736
Quote:
Originally Posted by tref View Post
I had game last night where Team A milked a minute or more off the clock each possession. When they finally shot the ball & missed they pressured the defensive rebounder in the backcourt. The slow down tactic became frustrating to Team B (who was a much better team record wise & won by 4 in OT). Late in the game A2 missed a gimmie & applied too much pressure on B5. I called the foul & immediately after the whistle B5 caught him with an unintentional but "get off me" elbow in the chops. We have blood on the court & I report the foul.

As we wait for the clean up on aisle 3 my partner (DII-W) asks if I'm just calling the foul on A2 or did I think about tacking on a dead ball INT technical to B5??

Has anyone had this situation? And did you tack on the other foul?
Was the elbow illegal? Contact even contact that draws blood, might not be illegal. But I know you know this.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 10, 2012, 01:28pm
Rich's Avatar
Get away from me, Steve.
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 15,663
Quote:
Originally Posted by tref View Post
I had game last night where Team A milked a minute or more off the clock each possession. When they finally shot the ball & missed they pressured the defensive rebounder in the backcourt. The slow down tactic became frustrating to Team B (who was a much better team record wise & won by 4 in OT). Late in the game A2 missed a gimmie & applied too much pressure on B5. I called the foul & immediately after the whistle B5 caught him with an unintentional but "get off me" elbow in the chops. We have blood on the court & I report the foul.

As we wait for the clean up on aisle 3 my partner (DII-W) asks if I'm just calling the foul on A2 or did I think about tacking on a dead ball INT technical to B5??

Has anyone had this situation? And did you tack on the other foul?
Sometimes when players are grabbing at arms and elbows 80 feet from the basket, a player is going to get clipped.

On another note, it amazes me how many schools are unprepared for proper blood cleanup.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 10, 2012, 01:30pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toren View Post
Was the elbow illegal? Contact even contact that draws blood, might not be illegal. But I know you know this.
In addition to the RA coming to a HS near you, the Feds really need to pick up the elbow above the shoulders being an INT/FF1 at the minimum.

To answer your question, if I didnt call the foul on A2 there would have been a p/c on B5 less than a second later.
__________________
I gotta new attitude!
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 10, 2012, 01:35pm
Rich's Avatar
Get away from me, Steve.
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 15,663
Quote:
Originally Posted by tref View Post
In addition to the RA coming to a HS near you, the Feds really need to pick up the elbow above the shoulders being an INT/FF1 at the minimum.
I really want a monitor, too.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 10, 2012, 01:47pm
Esteemed Participant
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 4,772
Quote:
Originally Posted by tref View Post
In addition to the RA coming to a HS near you, the Feds really need to pick up the elbow above the shoulders being an INT/FF1 at the minimum.

.
No they don't.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 10, 2012, 01:53pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,183
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichMSN View Post
I really want a monitor, too.
Oh what a wonderful world it would be!

Unfortunately we have to get it right in real time...
__________________
I gotta new attitude!
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 10, 2012, 02:29pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 17,181
Quote:
Originally Posted by tref View Post
the Feds really need to pick up the elbow above the shoulders being an INT/FF1 at the minimum.
It's on the questionnaire for next year.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 10, 2012, 02:31pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,183
How about the monitor?
__________________
I gotta new attitude!
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 10, 2012, 03:53pm
(Something hilarious)
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: These United States
Posts: 1,162
Quote:
Originally Posted by tref View Post
I had game last night where Team A milked a minute or more off the clock each possession. When they finally shot the ball & missed they pressured the defensive rebounder in the backcourt. The slow down tactic became frustrating to Team B (who was a much better team record wise & won by 4 in OT). Late in the game A2 missed a gimmie & applied too much pressure on B5. I called the foul & immediately after the whistle B5 caught him with an unintentional but "get off me" elbow in the chops. We have blood on the court & I report the foul.

As we wait for the clean up on aisle 3 my partner (DII-W) asks if I'm just calling the foul on A2 or did I think about tacking on a dead ball INT technical to B5??

Has anyone had this situation? And did you tack on the other foul?
Yep. And yep. Hard to ignore/pass on or close down and talk-through an elbow that results in a bloody head/face, IMO.
__________________
I can't remember the last time I wasn't at least kind-of tired.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 10, 2012, 04:25pm
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 13,523
Quote:
Originally Posted by tref View Post
...
Has anyone had this situation? And did you tack on the other foul?
Yes I have and yes I called a T.

A few years ago when I was first starting work BV on somewhat regular basis. 2-man crew and Team B has been applying backcourt pressure on almost every possession. I'm T on the shot and new Lead on the rebound. A1 (big man) gets defensive rebound in middle of the paint and has elbows up, B1 and B2 (guards) apply immediate harassment so I stay put and referee. A1 pivots one way and gets fouled by B1. Apparently he doesn't hear the whistle and pivots back with elbow leading and connects to B2's head. He didn't swing the elbow excessively, it was part of his pivot, but it was definitely intended to keep little hands from slapping at him. If it would have been a live ball I definitely would have had a PC. B2 had heard the whistle and had relaxed and wasn't paying attention to A1's movement.

Some here may say I should have had a flagrant T. Some might say I should have had nothing. I went with intentional contact technical. Commissioner was in attendance and came in at halftime and asked about the play. He responded that he was happy with how I handled it and it was what was needed to clean up what had started to become a chippy game.
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 10, 2012, 04:26pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 17,181
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
Yes I have and yes I called a T.

A few years ago when I was first starting work BV on somewhat regular basis. 2-man crew and Team B has been applying backcourt pressure on almost every possession. I'm T on the shot and new Lead on the rebound. A1 (big man) gets defensive rebound in middle of the paint and has elbows up, B1 and B2 (guards) apply immediate harassment so I stay put and referee. A1 pivots one way and gets fouled by B1. Apparently he doesn't hear the whistle and pivots back with elbow leading and connects to B2's head. He didn't swing he elbow excessively, it was part of his pivot, but it was definitely intended to keep little hands from slapping at him. If it would have been a live ball I definitely would have had a PC. B2 had heard the whistle and had relaxed and wasn't paying attention to A1's movement.

Some here may say I should have had a flagrant T. Some might say I should have had nothing. I went with intentional contact technical. Commissioner was in attendance and came in at halftime and asked about the play. He responded that he was happy with how I handled it and it was what was needed to clean up what had started to become a chippy game.
Those two statements are contradictory.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 10, 2012, 04:34pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 11,828
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
Those two statements are contradictory.
By the letter of the two rules, yes. But with the judgement of the situation applied, you could easily come up with either result if you showed the same play to multiple officials.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 10, 2012, 04:34pm
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 13,523
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
Those two statements are contradictory.
If the ball were live his pivot and contact would have been a PC. No excessive swinging of the elbows. The ball was dead and as I said his movement was definitely in the MO of "beware if you get in my path". Like I said, B2 had relaxed. If B2 had being paying attention I don't think he would have gotten hit.

So if you expect me to be able to justify it by the letter of the rule book, then I possibly would lose the battle in moot court. But in the real world moment I felt alright with my call and so did my the person who gave me the game.
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR

Last edited by Raymond; Fri Feb 10, 2012 at 04:40pm.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 10, 2012, 04:37pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,183
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
So if you expect me to be able to justify it by the letter of the rule book, then I possibly would lose the battle in moot court. But in the real world moment I felt alright with me call and so did my the person who gave me the game.
At the end of the day this is all that matters.

Thanks for the replies all!

I'm glad I took my partners info & tacked on the T.
__________________
I gotta new attitude!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bang.....bang!!! JRutledge Basketball 28 Mon Jan 30, 2012 01:18pm
Bang-bang-thud obstruction question Paul L Softball 12 Fri Apr 28, 2006 03:45pm
Tips for the Bang Bang plays... Alameda Softball 11 Tue May 10, 2005 05:43pm
Bang Bang Play RookieDude Basketball 11 Wed Feb 16, 2005 09:40pm
Going Out with a Bang Spaman_29 Basketball 15 Mon Feb 25, 2002 03:09pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:18pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1