Pass hitting player and going through basket

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

You're misapplying 5.2.1C(b).

Note that it is under a section titled "THREE-POINT TRY"

The heading is editorial and irrelevant, as Situation B makes clear (it concerns a thrown ball that is NOT a try). The governing rule is 5-2-1, which states:
"A successful try, tap or thrown ball from the field by a player who
is located behind the team's own 19-foot, 9-inch arc counts three points."

Moreover, the wording of Situation C is distinctive: "A1 throws the ball from behind the three-point line."

That's different from Situation A ("A1 attempts a three-point goal.") and is more like Situation B Ruling ("A ball that is thrown into a team's own goal from behind the
three-point arc scores three points, regardless of whether the thrown ball was an
actual try for goal.").

It's clear that Situations B and C concern thrown balls that are NOT tries, and my original puzzle remains.

[billyu2]

Originally Posted by mbyron

The heading is editorial and irrelevant, as Situation B makes clear (it concerns a thrown ball that is NOT a try). The governing rule is 5-2-1, which states:
"A successful try, tap or thrown ball from the field by a player who
is located behind the team's own 19-foot, 9-inch arc counts three points."

Moreover, the wording of Situation C is distinctive: "A1 throws the ball from behind the three-point line."

That's different from Situation A ("A1 attempts a three-point goal.") and is more like Situation B Ruling ("A ball that is thrown into a team's own goal from behind the
three-point arc scores three points, regardless of whether the thrown ball was an
actual try for goal.").

It's clear that Situations B and C concern thrown balls that are NOT tries, and my original puzzle remains.

Disagree. I think Camron has it right. The actual definition of a try specifically describes shooting as "throwing" which is obviously a poor choice of a word. Even though a pass or try that is "thrown" from behind the arc and goes in counts as 3, officials still have to make judgements regarding was it a pass or a try. For example, if A1 is obviously throwing a long lob pass toward A5 near the basket but is fouled as he releases the throw, are we giving him 3 shots?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by mbyron

The heading is editorial and irrelevant, as Situation B makes clear (it concerns a thrown ball that is NOT a try). The governing rule is 5-2-1, which states:
"A successful try, tap or thrown ball from the field by a player who
is located behind the team's own 19-foot, 9-inch arc counts three points."

Moreover, the wording of Situation C is distinctive: "A1 throws the ball from behind the three-point line."

That's different from Situation A ("A1 attempts a three-point goal.") and is more like Situation B Ruling ("A ball that is thrown into a team's own goal from behind the
three-point arc scores three points, regardless of whether the thrown ball was an
actual try for goal.").

It's clear that Situations B and C concern thrown balls that are NOT tries, and my original puzzle remains.

Note the blue text above. That is not from OOB.

Plus, is OOB really behind the 3-point arc? I say no...the 3-point area is ONLY inbounds. Name any other time a player can score 3-points while throwin the ball from OOB?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Note the blue text above. That is not from OOB.

Plus, is OOB really behind the 3-point arc? I say no...the 3-point area is ONLY inbounds. Name any other time a player can score 3-points while throwin the ball from OOB?

I agree -- I didn't know that was (still) an issue. Balls from OOB that are deflected (not intentionally tapped with <= .3 seconds) into the basket are always 2 points.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Note the blue text above. That is not from OOB.

Plus, is OOB really behind the 3-point arc? I say no...the 3-point area is ONLY inbounds. Name any other time a player can score 3-points while throwin the ball from OOB?

I never said anything about OOB. Where did that come from? The issue concerns shot vs throw (e.g. a pass).

Pass from behind the arc bounces off B's shoulder and goes in: 3 points, even though it was not a try.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Pass from behind the arc bounces off B's shoulder and goes in: 3 points, even though it was not a try.

Is this a question, or a factual statement?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Is this a question, or a factual statement?

If you ask me, it's not a factual statement.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by mbyron

I never said anything about OOB. Where did that come from? The issue concerns shot vs throw (e.g. a pass).

The original post was about a throwin.

Originally Posted by mbyron

Pass from behind the arc bounces off B's shoulder and goes in: 3 points, even though it was not a try.

No, it is not. See 4.41.4 SITUATION B. Once it no longer has the chance to enter the basket in flight it can only be a 2.

Remember, they removed the need to decide try/pass so no matter what you thought it was, it comes out the same. That means 4.41.4 SIT B applies whether it was a throw or a try.

The case that you're relying on to rule it a 3 just don't apply to a thrown ball that might have been a try that has fallen short and is not going in. It is ONLY meant to apply a ball that, as thrown, might have been a shot and goes in...and that a tip by a defender at the point of release doesn't change that.

If the defender touches it much closer to the basket, we'd have goaltending....but that can't happen once the shot falls below the rim. So the try (or virtual try) is over. It is just a lose ball that goes in.

Don't take that case so literally and apply it to situations it was never intended to be used for.

[Dave9819]

So, would 2 points be awarded in this scenario:

A1 shoots the ball from behind the 3 point line. Ball has been released by the shooter and time expires as the ball is in the air. Shot falls short of the basket, bounces off of B1 (head, shoulder, arms - doesn't matter) and goes through the basket. 2 points awarded because the try for goal ended once the ball was below the rim? It is still a live ball, correct?

Same scenario, but instead of hitting B1, it bounces off the floor and into the basket. No points since time expired, correct?

[APG]

No that it wouldn't count in your first situation because time expired and the ball became dead as soon as it was apparent the try will not be successful. The ball bouncing off of B1 is immaterial. If the ball had hit off B1 and entered the basket before time expired, then it would count as two points.