Pass hitting player and going through basket

[Dave9819]

Hello,

I was thinking of a few different scenarios and needed some opinions on the correct ruling.

1. Team A has the ball for a throw-in at the division line. (a) A1 throws the ball in and it hits off of A1 who is behind the 3pt. line and goes through the basket. (b) A1 throws the ball in and it his off of B1 who is behind the 3pt line and the ball goes in. Do we have a 3pt goal in both cases?

What if time expires after it hits off of A1 or B1 but before it goes through the basket?

Does any of this change if this is a pass from A1 who is dribbling the ball in-bounds at the division line?

What would be the ruling if A1 attempts a 3-point shot, but the shot is short and B1 accidently tips the ball in (after the try or tap for goal is judged to be unsuccessful, so we would not have any Basket Interference or Goal Tending)? Would it be a 2pt or 3pt goal? I believe it should be a 3pt. goal.

Thanks!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Dave9819

Hello,

I was thinking of a few different scenarios and needed some opinions on the correct ruling.

1. Team A has the ball for a throw-in at the division line. (a) A1 throws the ball in and it hits off of A1 who is behind the 3pt. line and goes through the basket. (b) A1 throws the ball in and it his off of B1 who is behind the 3pt line and the ball goes in. Do we have a 3pt goal in both cases?

No.

Originally Posted by Dave9819

What if time expires after it hits off of A1 or B1 but before it goes through the basket?

No, they are not shots.

Originally Posted by Dave9819

Does any of this change if this is a pass from A1 who is dribbling the ball in-bounds at the division line?

No, they would still be 2 point.

Originally Posted by Dave9819

What would be the ruling if A1 attempts a 3-point shot, but the shot is short and B1 accidently tips the ball in (after the try or tap for goal is judged to be unsuccessful, so we would not have any Basket Interference or Goal Tending)? Would it be a 2pt or 3pt goal? I believe it should be a 3pt. goal.

Thanks!

You would have 3 point shot because touching the ball by the defense does not change the status of the shot and where it was taken from.

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Dave9819

What would be the ruling if A1 attempts a 3-point shot, but the shot is short and B1 accidently tips the ball in (after the try or tap for goal is judged to be unsuccessful, so we would not have any Basket Interference or Goal Tending)? Would it be a 2pt or 3pt goal? I believe it should be a 3pt. goal.

Thanks!

The try ends when it is certain that it was unsuccessful. If B1 knocks it in after that, it counts 2.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Dave9819

Hello,

I was thinking of a few different scenarios and needed some opinions on the correct ruling.

1. Team A has the ball for a throw-in at the division line. (a) A1 throws the ball in and it hits off of A2 who is behind the 3pt. line and goes through the basket. (b) A1 throws the ball in and it his off of B1 who is behind the 3pt line and the ball goes in. Do we have a 3pt goal in both cases?

(a) 3 points since A2 touched the ball beyond the arc.

(b) 3 points since B1 touched the ball beyond the arc.

Originally Posted by Dave9819

What if time expires after it hits off of A1 or B1 but before it goes through the basket?

Since neither is a try for goal, the ball becomes dead upon the buzzer sounding and no goal is counted because a live ball did not go through the basket.

Only when a player who has attempted a try for goal does the attempt extend to beyond the buzzer, and it extends until the try is good or until the try is clearly unsuccessful.

Originally Posted by Dave9819

Does any of this change if this is a pass from A1 who is dribbling the ball in-bounds at the division line?

No - all rulings remain the same.

Originally Posted by Dave9819

What would be the ruling if A1 attempts a 3-point shot, but the shot is short and B1 accidently tips the ball in (after the try or tap for goal is judged to be unsuccessful, so we would not have any Basket Interference or Goal Tending)? Would it be a 2pt or 3pt goal? I believe it should be a 3pt. goal.

Count 2 points. Once the attempt is judged to be unsuccessful, the try is over {4-41}, and so does the ability to score 3 points without a new try for goal behind the arc. So when B1 tipped the ball, all that occurred is a live ball went through the basket - score 2 points.

[mbyron]

5.2.1 SITUATION C answers all of your questions concerning the location of the last player to touch the ball.

You might also review 4-41, which defines a try. To answer your question about end-of-period scoring, you need to know whether your cases involve a try.

Hope that helps!

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

(a) 2 points. A2's attempt is not a try for goal. What happened is a live ball went through the basket - score 2 points.

You need to review 5.2.1 SITUATION C, too.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by mbyron

You need to review 5.2.1 SITUATION C, too.

Yes, I was just looking that up. I'll edit. Behind in football means "not yet reached", but in basketball, means "has reached". I get em mixed up at times. Grrr...

[PG_Ref]

Originally Posted by mbyron

You need to review 5.2.1 SITUATION C, too.

Seems like the RULING for case play 5.2.1 Sit B gives a clearer explanation for this play.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

(b) 3 points since B1 touched the ball beyond the arc.

Disagree. The implied condition for the ruling you're using to make this conclusion is that the thrown ball is inbounds already...not a throw in.

In no possible way could a throwin be a 3-point try so B1 touching it only makes it legal for it to enter the basket...it doesn't make it a 3.

In part (a), I suppose you might get a 3 out of that but not because it was a thrown ball....it was a throwin. It couldn't have been 3 to start with. Only if you judge that A1 was tapping the ball for a 3 would it be 3, not just tipped/touched.

This rule, for a ball thrown from outside the 3-point arc that enters the basket was only intended to remove the necessary judgment of whether it was a try or not when there was a question of whether it was a try or not. A throwin was never in doubt. For that matter, the position of the throwin is neither inside of nor outside of the 3-point arc....It is OOB.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Dave9819

What would be the ruling if A1 attempts a 3-point shot, but the shot is short and B1 accidently tips the ball in (after the try or tap for goal is judged to be unsuccessful, so we would not have any Basket Interference or Goal Tending)? Would it be a 2pt or 3pt goal? I believe it should be a 3pt. goal.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

No.
You would have 3 point shot because touching the ball by the defense does not change the status of the shot and where it was taken from.

Once the ball is below the rim or will clearly miss, the try (or defacto try) is over. 2 points if B (or A) then tips the ball in.

See...

4.41.4 SITUATION B: A1’s three-point try is short and below ring level when it
hits the shoulder of: (a) A2; or (b) B1 and rebounds to the backboard and through
the basket. RULING: The three-point try ended when it was obviously short and
below the ring. However, since a live ball went through the basket, two points are
scored in both (a) and (b). (5-1)

[berserkBBK]

Kind of like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=XM4XmCiuX64

[mbyron]

Apparently if you attempt a 3-point try, miss, and it bounces into the basket off B's head, you get 2 points. 4.41.4C

If you throw a pass to a teammate from behind the arc, miss, and it bounces into the basket off B's head, you get 3 points. 5.2.1C(b)

Weird.

[JRutledge]

Why is this weird. One you are clearly throwing at the basket and it happens to go in the basket. The other it is clear you were not even trying to score and the ball happens to go in the basket. The rule is in place because players would try and Ally-Opp on some level and the ball would go in the basket inadvertently. They wanted to take this out of the hands of the officials to determine the intent of the passer/shooter.

Peace

[just another ref]

There is no 4.41.4c

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by just another ref

There is no 4.41.4c

He meant 4.41.4B...as I cited just before his post.