Question on hitting player already OB

chuck chopper · #1 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 14, 2004, 11:41am

I'm just a football fan not an Official. This past weekend one of the games had a penalty on a player who was knocked OB then came back in and was 1st to touch the ball.
Announcers were talking about possibility that he was hit while OB & prevented from coming back in. What is Penalty ?
In this case it happened on a 4th down punt and the player involved on the kicking team got knocked OB then came back in (10 yards further down the field) and stopped the ball from going into the endzone. Officials ruled a touch-back because of him being 1st to touch ball. 2nd question would be is he req'd to come back in where he got knocked out ?

Bob Floyd · #2 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 14, 2004, 12:51pm

I saw a play similar to the one posted. If it is the same play I think some of the details were incorrect. NFL rules allow defenders to legally chuck cover men on scrimmage kicks all the way down the field. They intentionally try to force them out of bounds to affect their status. In the play the chuck was legal. I don't recall any question about the cover man being hit while out of bounds. When the kicking team player goes out of bounds, he may not touch or recover a scrimmage kick beyond the line until after it has been touched by B. The penalty is loss of 5 from the previous spot. This is how the officials enforced it. It was not a touchback. They replayed the down after the penalty.

chuck chopper · #3 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 14, 2004, 12:57pm

I stand corrected..they did have to re-kick. However could you still answer the 2 questons. 1) hitting someone while they are OB to prevent them from coming back in. 2) Can you come back in anywhere you choose & not come back in at the spot you went out.

ABoselli · #4 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 14, 2004, 03:07pm

Hitting a player who is OB is a foul regardless of how he got there, so it's OK to push him out (as long as it was not an illegal act that forced him out e.g. blow to the head or hands to the face, personal foul etc)but not OK to keep him out.

The player can come back anywhere he wishes but is not allowed to leaglly touch the ball until the recieving team has touched it or another kicking team member has touched it.

Snake~eyes · #5 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 14, 2004, 03:22pm

Quote:

Originally posted by ABoselli
Hitting a player who is OB is a foul regardless of how he got there, so it's OK to push him out (as long as it was not an illegal act that forced him out e.g. blow to the head or hands to the face, personal foul etc)but not OK to keep him out.

The player can come back anywhere he wishes but is not allowed to leaglly touch the ball until the recieving team has touched it or another kicking team member has touched it.

Just want to make sure I have the NFHS ruling right, no foul as long as the player returns immediately?

Bob M. · #6 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 14, 2004, 03:37pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Snake~eyes

Quote:

Originally posted by ABoselli
Hitting a player who is OB is a foul regardless of how he got there, so it's OK to push him out (as long as it was not an illegal act that forced him out e.g. blow to the head or hands to the face, personal foul etc)but not OK to keep him out.

The player can come back anywhere he wishes but is not allowed to leaglly touch the ball until the recieving team has touched it or another kicking team member has touched it.

Just want to make sure I have the NFHS ruling right, no foul as long as the player returns immediately?

REPLY: Correct...and if blocked out by an opponent, once he returns there are no restrictions on his touching or being touched by the kick except of course for first (Fed) or illegal (NCAA) touching.

BktBallRef · #7 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 14, 2004, 05:41pm

Quote:

Originally posted by ABoselli
Hitting a player who is OB is a foul regardless of how he got there, so it's OK to push him out (as long as it was not an illegal act that forced him out e.g. blow to the head or hands to the face, personal foul etc)but not OK to keep him out.

Are we talking just NFL here? Rule reference?

Snake~eyes · #8 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 14, 2004, 06:22pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob M.

Quote:

Originally posted by Snake~eyes

Quote:

Originally posted by ABoselli
Hitting a player who is OB is a foul regardless of how he got there, so it's OK to push him out (as long as it was not an illegal act that forced him out e.g. blow to the head or hands to the face, personal foul etc)but not OK to keep him out.

The player can come back anywhere he wishes but is not allowed to leaglly touch the ball until the recieving team has touched it or another kicking team member has touched it.

Just want to make sure I have the NFHS ruling right, no foul as long as the player returns immediately?

REPLY: Correct...and if blocked out by an opponent, once he returns there are no restrictions on his touching or being touched by the kick except of course for first (Fed) or illegal (NCAA) touching.

What do you mean "except of course for first"???

Bob Floyd · #9 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 14, 2004, 06:52pm

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Quote:

Originally posted by ABoselli
Hitting a player who is OB is a foul regardless of how he got there, so it's OK to push him out (as long as it was not an illegal act that forced him out e.g. blow to the head or hands to the face, personal foul etc)but not OK to keep him out.

Are we talking just NFL here? Rule reference?

NFL Rule reference: Rule 9,Art.5
"No player of the kicker's team, who has been out bounds, may touch or recover a scrimmage kick beyond the line until after it has been touched by B. Penalty: Loss of five yards from the previous spot.
Note there is no reference to "touching by another K player" which was added by ABoselli in his post on the same subject.

ABoselli · #10 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 14, 2004, 07:18pm

Sorry. I had read that rule a few days prior so I didn't go back to get the exact wording.

There are so many excepts and unlesses, notes and supplements in the NFL book that it can get very confusing.

BktBallRef · #11 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 14, 2004, 07:47pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob Floyd

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Quote:

Originally posted by ABoselli
Hitting a player who is OB is a foul regardless of how he got there, so it's OK to push him out (as long as it was not an illegal act that forced him out e.g. blow to the head or hands to the face, personal foul etc)but not OK to keep him out.

Are we talking just NFL here? Rule reference?

NFL Rule reference: Rule 9,Art.5
"No player of the kicker's team, who has been out bounds, may touch or recover a scrimmage kick beyond the line until after it has been touched by B. Penalty: Loss of five yards from the previous spot.
Note there is no reference to "touching by another K player" which was added by ABoselli in his post on the same subject.

That wasn't what I was asking. ABoselli stated:

"Hitting a player who is OB is a foul regardless of how he got there, so it's OK to push him out (as long as it was not an illegal act that forced him out e.g. blow to the head or hands to the face, personal foul etc)but not OK to keep him out."

That's what I was asking for regarding a rule reference.

ABoselli · #12 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 15, 2004, 09:30am

My NFL Rules book is at work, so I'll have to look it up when I get back there. Had to stay home with the kids today as school has been canceled here today due to the extreme cold / wind chills.

I could see wearing a long sleeve shirt in these conditions.

I hope that this recent cold snap has convinced the Giants Stadium Super Bowl contingent that their idea is ill - concieved

jfurdell · #13 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 15, 2004, 11:26am

Quote:

Originally posted by Snake~eyes

Quote:

REPLY: Correct...and if blocked out by an opponent, once he returns there are no restrictions on his touching or being touched by the kick except of course for first (Fed) or illegal (NCAA) touching. [/B]

What do you mean "except of course for first"??? [/B]

First touching.

Bob M. · #14 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 15, 2004, 01:20pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Snake~eyes

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob M.

Quote:

Originally posted by Snake~eyes

Quote:

Originally posted by ABoselli
Hitting a player who is OB is a foul regardless of how he got there, so it's OK to push him out (as long as it was not an illegal act that forced him out e.g. blow to the head or hands to the face, personal foul etc)but not OK to keep him out.

The player can come back anywhere he wishes but is not allowed to leaglly touch the ball until the recieving team has touched it or another kicking team member has touched it.

Just want to make sure I have the NFHS ruling right, no foul as long as the player returns immediately?

REPLY: Correct...and if blocked out by an opponent, once he returns there are no restrictions on his touching or being touched by the kick except of course for first (Fed) or illegal (NCAA) touching.

What do you mean "except of course for first"???

REPLY: I guess I could have expressed the meaning more clearly. I meant that if he comes back in after being blocked OOB, he's still bound by the rules regarding "first touching" (a Federation term) or "illegal touching" (the equivalent NCAA term). But in neither code is there a foul involved.

ABoselli · #15 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 16, 2004, 04:06pm

Rule 12 Article 8 - There shall be no unnecessary roughness. This shall include but not be limited to -

(c) A member of the receiving team cannot go out of bounds and contact a kicking team player out of bounds. If this occurs on a kick from scrimmage, post-possession rules would apply if appropriate.