Pass hitting player and going through basket

[mbyron]

Apparently if you attempt a 3-point try, miss, and it bounces into the basket off B's head, you get 2 points. 4.41.4C

If you throw a pass to a teammate from behind the arc, miss, and it bounces into the basket off B's head, you get 3 points. 5.2.1C(b)

Weird.

[JRutledge]

Why is this weird. One you are clearly throwing at the basket and it happens to go in the basket. The other it is clear you were not even trying to score and the ball happens to go in the basket. The rule is in place because players would try and Ally-Opp on some level and the ball would go in the basket inadvertently. They wanted to take this out of the hands of the officials to determine the intent of the passer/shooter.

Peace

[just another ref]

There is no 4.41.4c

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by just another ref

There is no 4.41.4c

He meant 4.41.4B...as I cited just before his post.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Apparently if you attempt a 3-point try, miss, and it bounces into the basket off B's head, you get 2 points. 4.41.4C

If you throw a pass to a teammate from behind the arc, miss, and it bounces into the basket off B's head, you get 3 points. 5.2.1C(b)

Weird.

You're missapplying 5.2.1C(b).

Note that it is under a section titled "THREE-POINT TRY"

It is making the point that if A or B tips the shot (just out of the shooters hand), it will still be 3 whether B is in the 3-point area or in the 2-point area (usually feet on the line) but if it touches A in the 2-point area, it becomes a 2.

It never was intended for the situation you pose...where the try or virtual try is ALWAYS over when the ball passes below the level of the ring or ever passes above the ring.

Only 4.41.4C is relevant at that point....a ball that bounces off a player's head/shoulder is a 2 and it is not a try.

[Dave9819]

So if A1 is inbounding and their inbounds pass hits off of A2 or B2 who are standing outside the 3pt. line, would it be a 2pt or 3pt?

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by dave9819

so if a1 is inbounding and their inbounds pass hits off of a2 or b2 who are standing outside the 3pt. Line, would it be a 2pt or 3pt?

2

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

You're misapplying 5.2.1C(b).

Note that it is under a section titled "THREE-POINT TRY"

The heading is editorial and irrelevant, as Situation B makes clear (it concerns a thrown ball that is NOT a try). The governing rule is 5-2-1, which states:
"A successful try, tap or thrown ball from the field by a player who
is located behind the team's own 19-foot, 9-inch arc counts three points."

Moreover, the wording of Situation C is distinctive: "A1 throws the ball from behind the three-point line."

That's different from Situation A ("A1 attempts a three-point goal.") and is more like Situation B Ruling ("A ball that is thrown into a team's own goal from behind the
three-point arc scores three points, regardless of whether the thrown ball was an
actual try for goal.").

It's clear that Situations B and C concern thrown balls that are NOT tries, and my original puzzle remains.

[billyu2]

Originally Posted by mbyron

The heading is editorial and irrelevant, as Situation B makes clear (it concerns a thrown ball that is NOT a try). The governing rule is 5-2-1, which states:
"A successful try, tap or thrown ball from the field by a player who
is located behind the team's own 19-foot, 9-inch arc counts three points."

Moreover, the wording of Situation C is distinctive: "A1 throws the ball from behind the three-point line."

That's different from Situation A ("A1 attempts a three-point goal.") and is more like Situation B Ruling ("A ball that is thrown into a team's own goal from behind the
three-point arc scores three points, regardless of whether the thrown ball was an
actual try for goal.").

It's clear that Situations B and C concern thrown balls that are NOT tries, and my original puzzle remains.

Disagree. I think Camron has it right. The actual definition of a try specifically describes shooting as "throwing" which is obviously a poor choice of a word. Even though a pass or try that is "thrown" from behind the arc and goes in counts as 3, officials still have to make judgements regarding was it a pass or a try. For example, if A1 is obviously throwing a long lob pass toward A5 near the basket but is fouled as he releases the throw, are we giving him 3 shots?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by mbyron

The heading is editorial and irrelevant, as Situation B makes clear (it concerns a thrown ball that is NOT a try). The governing rule is 5-2-1, which states:
"A successful try, tap or thrown ball from the field by a player who
is located behind the team's own 19-foot, 9-inch arc counts three points."

Moreover, the wording of Situation C is distinctive: "A1 throws the ball from behind the three-point line."

That's different from Situation A ("A1 attempts a three-point goal.") and is more like Situation B Ruling ("A ball that is thrown into a team's own goal from behind the
three-point arc scores three points, regardless of whether the thrown ball was an
actual try for goal.").

It's clear that Situations B and C concern thrown balls that are NOT tries, and my original puzzle remains.

Note the blue text above. That is not from OOB.

Plus, is OOB really behind the 3-point arc? I say no...the 3-point area is ONLY inbounds. Name any other time a player can score 3-points while throwin the ball from OOB?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Note the blue text above. That is not from OOB.

Plus, is OOB really behind the 3-point arc? I say no...the 3-point area is ONLY inbounds. Name any other time a player can score 3-points while throwin the ball from OOB?

I agree -- I didn't know that was (still) an issue. Balls from OOB that are deflected (not intentionally tapped with <= .3 seconds) into the basket are always 2 points.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Note the blue text above. That is not from OOB.

Plus, is OOB really behind the 3-point arc? I say no...the 3-point area is ONLY inbounds. Name any other time a player can score 3-points while throwin the ball from OOB?

I never said anything about OOB. Where did that come from? The issue concerns shot vs throw (e.g. a pass).

Pass from behind the arc bounces off B's shoulder and goes in: 3 points, even though it was not a try.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Pass from behind the arc bounces off B's shoulder and goes in: 3 points, even though it was not a try.

Is this a question, or a factual statement?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Is this a question, or a factual statement?

If you ask me, it's not a factual statement.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by mbyron

I never said anything about OOB. Where did that come from? The issue concerns shot vs throw (e.g. a pass).

The original post was about a throwin.

Originally Posted by mbyron

Pass from behind the arc bounces off B's shoulder and goes in: 3 points, even though it was not a try.

No, it is not. See 4.41.4 SITUATION B. Once it no longer has the chance to enter the basket in flight it can only be a 2.

Remember, they removed the need to decide try/pass so no matter what you thought it was, it comes out the same. That means 4.41.4 SIT B applies whether it was a throw or a try.

The case that you're relying on to rule it a 3 just don't apply to a thrown ball that might have been a try that has fallen short and is not going in. It is ONLY meant to apply a ball that, as thrown, might have been a shot and goes in...and that a tip by a defender at the point of release doesn't change that.

If the defender touches it much closer to the basket, we'd have goaltending....but that can't happen once the shot falls below the rim. So the try (or virtual try) is over. It is just a lose ball that goes in.

Don't take that case so literally and apply it to situations it was never intended to be used for.