Flopping Reference

[NCHSAA]

What is the particular rules reference for a defensive player not legally being able to fall backwards right before contact???

The play is: A1 is driving to the basket and B1 has obtained LGP, but right before contact they begin to fall backwards. Then there is contact from A1's drive on B1's torso/or body.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by NCHSAA

What is the particular rules reference for a defensive player not legally being able to fall backwards right before contact???

The play is: A1 is driving to the basket and B1 has obtained LGP, but right before contact they begin to fall backwards. Then there is contact from A1's drive on B1's torso/or body.

NCHSAA:

Your play is a perfect example of a defensive player with a LGP reacting imminent contact from an offensive player. This is not flopping to draw a foul but should be a foul by the offensive player if contact occurs.

MTD, Sr.

[Adam]

The bald old ICP fan has it right. There's a difference between "faking being fouled" (illegal) and reacting to imminent contact (legal.)

[Rob1968]

Originally Posted by NCHSAA

What is the particular rules reference for a defensive player not legally being able to fall backwards right before contact???

The play is: A1 is driving to the basket and B1 has obtained LGP, but right before contact they begin to fall backwards. Then there is contact from A1's drive on B1's torso/or body.

Take a look at 4-7-2, the basis for block - charge plays. Then 4-23-3 e. tells us that "The guard may turn or duck to absorb the shock of imminent contact."

Obviously, these statements are the inverse of your OP, and tell us that the guard may move backwards when contact is imminent.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Rob1968

the guard may move backwards when contact is imminent.

Can't the defender legally move backward an almost any time, even if contact is not imminent, with the exception of moving into the path of an airborne shooter, who has already become airborne?

[Rob1968]

BillyMac,

I agree that the defender can always move backwards. The subject of moving backwards when contact is imminent is only part of the legal movements of a defender.
Last season, working a three-man crew with an experienced partner, and another official, with considerably less experience, the younger official, from Lead position, called a block when the defender, who had LGP, recoiled upon imminent contact from a driving ball-handler. At halftime, when I asked him what he saw on the play, he said, " The defender was moving backward and he wasn't "set"." So, we had a discussion, which seems to fit the OP. He didn't want to accept my point of view, that the defender always and certainly on the play in question, has the right to move backward. But, a few days later, he came to me and told me he understood it better.
I'm sure you've heard, from the fans, and from coaches, the "He wasn't set! He was moving!" kinds of retorts, on such calls. Sometimes it seems they want the defender to "take it like a man" to get the charge call.

[Camron Rust]

One way I prefer to frame this topic revolves around the effect of any such movement....

If the defender has initial LGP, does the movement of the defender increase or create the contact or does it actually decrease, lessen, or soften the contact. If it is the latter, it is probably not a block....as would be the case when stepping away from the shooter.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Can't the defender legally move backward an almost any time, even if contact is not imminent, with the exception of moving into the path of an airborne shooter, who has already become airborne?

Can't the offensive player legally move backward?

Can't the defender legally move sideways?

What if the offensive player is airborne, but isn't an airborne shooter?

IOW, try reading with context and stop trying to make every statement apply to every situation. That's the kind of crap that leads to your technical foul and myth summaries being so complicated. JMO, of course.

[Rob1968]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

One way I prefer to frame this topic revolves around the effect of any such movement....

If the defender has initial LGP, does the movement of the defender increase or create the contact or does it actually decrease, lessen, or soften the contact. If it is the latter, it is probably not a block....as would be the case when stepping away from the shooter.

Very well stated.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Rob1968

The guard may move backwards when contact is imminent.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Can't the defender legally move backward almost any time, even if contact is not imminent, with the exception of moving into the path of an airborne shooter, who has already become airborne?

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Stop trying to make every statement apply to every situation

There are already too many "myths" about block/charge situations. I couldn't let this one pass without a comment. You certainly know the various components of the block/charge rule. I know these components as well. Maybe NCHSAA, and Rob1968, know these components. Most officials, certainly most veteran officials, understand this rule.

Leaving the statement, "The guard may move backwards when contact is imminent", uncommented on, may lead some Forum members, especially those who may be young officials, or non officials, i.e. coaches, to believe that the only time a defender may be allowed to move, is only when contact is imminent, and/or, only backwards, when veteran officials know that this is not the case, that there are a number of movements that a defender may legally make.

As a retired teacher, with over thirty years in the classroom, I can't pass up teachable moments. I'm sorry if I wasted anybody's time.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

There are already too many "myths" about block/charge situations. I couldn't let this one pass without a comment. You certainly know the various components of the block/charge rule. I know these components as well. Maybe NCHSAA, and Rob1968, know these components. Most officials, certainly most veteran officials, understand this rule.

Leaving the statement, "The guard may move backwards when contact is imminent", uncommented on....

well, leaving your comment that a defender may always move backwards uncommented on could lead to similar misunderstandings amongst the unwashed.

[BktBallRef]

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Can't the defender legally move backward an almost any time, even if contact is not imminent, with the exception of moving into the path of an airborne shooter, who has already become airborne?

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Well, leaving your comment that a defender may always move backwards uncommented on could lead to similar misunderstandings amongst the unwashed.

OK. I'll bite. What did I miss here?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

OK. I'll bite. What did I miss here?

You can't think of any situation where a defender could be called for a foul while backing up? It's early here, and I can think of several off the top of my head.

[SNIPERBBB]

How about "The defender can always move backward relative to the offensive player as long as s/he don't foul another offensive player in the process."