Flopping

[Chess Ref]

So my season starts out with you basic vanilla JV tourney. So we about 30 seconds into my first game and this kid does a Vlade Divac on the court, and not a very good one at that. First chance I get I talk to him about it and he's good to go. one other kid tried it and I told him what the penalty was.

So has anyone really issued a T for "faking being fouled" ? I asked other refs this weekend and they pretty much looked at me like I had lobsters coming out of my head. The whole flopping thing annoys me but I really don't want to be the first one in the history of basketball to throw a T for flopping.

So what do you think ?

[gordon30307]

Originally Posted by Chess Ref

So my season starts out with you basic vanilla JV tourney. So we about 30 seconds into my first game and this kid does a Vlade Divac on the court, and not a very good one at that. First chance I get I talk to him about it and he's good to go. one other kid tried it and I told him what the penalty was.

So has anyone really issued a T for "faking being fouled" ? I asked other refs this weekend and they pretty much looked at me like I had lobsters coming out of my head. The whole flopping thing annoys me but I really don't want to be the first one in the history of basketball to throw a T for flopping.

So what do you think ?

Call a block and send him to the free throw line. If they don't get the message you'll soon be rid of the troublemakers.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by gordon30307

Call a block and send him to the free throw line. If they don't get the message you'll soon be rid of the troublemakers.

Flopping is defined as faking being fouled. How can you call a block when there's no illegal contact?

It's never a good idea to make up your own rules imo. If an official has a concern about a player flopping, then the rules already allow that official to stop the practice. If you want to warn first, fine. If it bothers you or if they ignore your warning, then simply issue the technical foul. If you don't want to use the rules that we have though, don't get into making things up.

[gordon30307]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Flopping is defined as faking being fouled. How can you call a block when there's no illegal contact?

It's never a good idea to make up your own rules imo. If an official has a concern about a player flopping, then the rules already allow that official to stop the practice. If you want to warn first, fine. If it bothers you or if they ignore your warning, then simply issue the technical foul. If you don't want to use the rules that we have though, don't get into making things up.

I know there's no contact. Hey I just had "bad judgement" on that play. What's the flopper's Coach going to say? He flopped?

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by gordon30307

I know there's no contact. Hey I just had "bad judgement" on that play. What's the flopper's Coach going to say? He flopped?

Sure. He'll say you made a blocking call when there was no contact. That's clearly against the rules. You screwed up.

Now, what do you do?

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Sure. He'll say you made a blocking call when there was no contact. That's clearly against the rules. You screwed up.

Now, what do you do?

Thank him?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by gordon30307

I know there's no contact. Hey I just had "bad judgement" on that play. What's the flopper's Coach going to say? He flopped?

Yup. And if he does say that his player flopped, what are you gonna do now?

Do whatever you want to, Gordon. All I can do is give you my opinion. And my opinion is that you shouldn't try to blow smoke up anybody's azz when you're officiating, be they player or coach. Believe it or not, there are some very knowledgeable coaches out there.

[gordon30307]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Yup. And if he does say that his player flopped, what are you gonna do now?

It will never happen. If he does "sorry I must have missed it" or if he's being a pain. "Coach, are you accusing me of cheating?" If he says yes see ya!!!!!!!

Do whatever you want to, Gordon. All I can do is give you my opinion. And .my opinion is that you shouldn't try to blow smoke up anybody's azz when you're officiating, be they player or coach. Believe it or not, there are some very knowledgeable coaches out there.

I'm not getting into a P***ing contest with you. Incidentally knoweledgeable Coaches get it. If not. Oh well.

[IREFU2]

I agree here, it is faking being fouled, but I have never seen anyone in our area call a "T" for it.

[Adam]

Once, in a 5th grade YMCA game. The kid flops as the dribbler approaches him. They were barely close enough for a closely guarded count. I warned him, and his coach.

Next time down the court, he does it again. I didn't think twice about it, I just called it.

But, the kids were young, I'd just warned him, and it was egregious.

[Junker]

Yes, I've been handcuffed into calling it. A few years ago I had a sophmore double header, 2 man. In the 1st quarter with about 2 minutes left in the half, the point guard for the visiting team takes a dive. I made a mental note of the players number and was going to talk to the coach quickly at the break. 4 possessions or so later, the same kid does the same thing again, and my partner, for some reason unknown to me, decides to stop the game and have the scorer record a formal warning in the book (not sure where he got that). I did have a quick conversation with the coach as to what happened and told him I was seeing the kid do the same thing. At the half I inform my partner that there was not a formal warning for that. So, of course as life goes, early in the 3rd quarter, I'm going to lead on a break, the kid in question has an offensive player get a step away from him on the drive, falls backwards and makes a noise. Since everyone in the gym knew the warning was there (although it should have been handled quietly) I didn't even hesitate. I threw the T. The visiting coach jumps up as I go to the bench. I just put up the "stop sign" and said firmly, "that is the exact play we talked about before you left the court and the exact player." He sat down and we moved on. So, yes, it has been called, although it can be avoided in most cases.

[ref2coach]

Why not enforce the penalty the book calls for. The "flopper" is CHEATING. The faking of a foul to get an opponent penalized is "unsporting" behavior. I have called it before and the flopping stopped for the rest of the game.

What is the downside? The team that has been cheated against get 2 FT and the ball. The coach yells at his player something like, "stay on your feet, play defense".

[Ref_in_Alberta]

I've never "T'd" a player for flopping... however this is the way I deal with it...

1. I'll tell the player in no uncretain terms to get up

2a. Any marginal contact by this player (by flopping); most likely will be a foul so that...

2b. At the 1st chance to educate the player as to the penalty for flopping.

3. If the behavior continues at this point, when the oppurtunity allows itself I'll go to the coach and say "Coach, I need your help with number ___, In my view he (or she) is continuing to fake being fouled (flopping) after I have warned them, I would like you to address this before I have to. Thank you"

4. By this point, it should be dealt with however there is no question if there is a "T" for flopping, it will not be a surprise to anyone...

My 2 cents

[mbyron]

So first you warn the player, then you really warn him, then you warn his coach that you warned him. Do you have any rules backup for all those warnings?

Flopping is an unsporting T. Why not avail yourself of the rulebook penalty?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by mbyron

So first you warn the player, then you really warn him, then you warn his coach that you warned him. Do you have any rules backup for all those warnings?

It's from the UN School of officiating.