How far do you push?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Just want to double check something. The key to this call is that A1, holding (not dribbling) the ball, had his pivot foot in the backcourt the entire time. Only the nonpivot foot went from frontcourt to backcourt? No violation. Right?

Billy, read what you quoted from Mark. Which part is confusing? If A1 were holding the ball and moved his pivot foot into the FC woudn't that be a travel?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Billy, read what you quoted from Mark. Which part is confusing? If A1 were holding the ball and moved his pivot foot into the FC woudn't that be a travel?

BadNewsRef:

Go easy on Billy, the Red Sox can't seem to get away for those pesky New York Yankees and that is causing him to have trouble concentrating on basketball.

MTD, Sr.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

The key to this call is that A1, holding (not dribbling) the ball, had his pivot foot in the backcourt the entire time. Only the nonpivot foot went from frontcourt to backcourt. No violation.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Which part is confusing?

Nothing is confusing. I'm just trying to clarify the situation, especially for Forum rookies.

4.4.1 SITUATION: As Team A is advancing the ball from its backcourt toward
its frontcourt, A1 passes the ball to A2. A2 catches the ball while both feet are on
the floor – with one foot on either side of the division line. In this situation, either
foot may be the pivot foot. (a) A2 lifts the foot which is in the backcourt and then
puts it back on the floor in the backcourt; or (b) A2 lifts the foot which is in the
frontcourt, pivots and puts it on the floor in the backcourt. RULING: In (a), it is a
backcourt violation. When A2, while holding the ball, lifts the foot which was in
the backcourt, the ball is now in the frontcourt. When A2’s foot then touches in
the backcourt, it is a violation. In (b), when A2 lifts the foot which is in the frontcourt
and places it down in the backcourt, the location of the ball has not
changed. The ball is still in the backcourt and no violation has occurred. (4-35-2)

On a related note: I tried to find the rule about a dribbler needing to have both feet and the ball in the frontcourt to gain frontcourt status, and I can't find the rule, or a caseplay. Could someone please point me in the right direction?

[PG_Ref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

On a related note: I tried to find the rule about a dribbler needing to have both feet and the ball in the frontcourt to gain frontcourt status, and I can't find the rule, or a caseplay. Could someone please point me in the right direction?

4-4-6 ... During a dribble from backcourt to frontcourt, the ball is in the frontcourt when the ball and both feet of the dribbler touch the court entirely in the frontcourt.

[Camron Rust]

Play I had this last season....big game, big rivals, full gym.....

I'm lead with post players doing what they do. A bullet pass comes in from outside. Both players reach for the ball, neither get it.....it was at least 1 foot beyond either player's hands....not even close. I call B's ball. My partner comes to me...one I trust very much....and asks me if I want some help. I KNOW he would only come in if he had something important. I welcome the input. The defender on the passer brushed the ball as it was released...not enough to slow the ball down or deflect it more than a few inches but a touch nonetheless. I blow my whistle and announce A's ball.

Don't know if it changed the game but it made us a lot more credible as a crew.

[tref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Play I had this last season....big game, big rivals, full gym.....

I'm lead with post players doing what they do. A bullet pass comes in from outside. Both players reach for the ball, neither get it.....it was at least 1 foot beyond either player's hands....not even close. I call B's ball. My partner comes to me...one I trust very much....and asks me if I want some help. I KNOW he would only come in if he had something important. I welcome the input. The defender on the passer brushed the ball as it was released...not enough to slow the ball down or deflect it more than a few inches but a touch nonetheless. I blow my whistle and announce A's ball.

Don't know if it changed the game but it made us a lot more credible as a crew.

If you were with Nevada you would've had to ask to get that play right.

[APG]

The fact that the partner came to Camron with information unsolicited probably means his partner didn't have enough respect for him and probably has big problems. Camron's credibility was lost for the rest of the game....


According to Nevada of course.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by tref

If you were with Nevada you would've had to ask to get that play right.

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

The fact that the partner came to Camron with information unsolicited probably means his partner didn't have enough respect for him and probably has big problems. Camron's credibility was lost for the rest of the game....

According to Nevada of course.

For every example such as Camron's there is the counter situation in which a partner who came to "help" actually made the error.

My guess is that in the long run officials are better served by staying out of it and trusting their partners to make quality decisions.

If a partner sees a play one way, but I see it another who is to say that I am right? I'm not going to assume that my judgment is superior. Quite possibly a play which looks a certain way from my angle looks completely different from where my partner is. I would rather trust that he had a good look, and if he didn't that he will ask for help. I've seen two videos showing how it can look as if a player touched a ball from one angle, but when another view is shown it is clear that there was no contact.

I've now worked half a dozen state championship games and probably twice that many state semi-finals. I've found myself on the court with people who used to work in the PAC-10, Big West, and even one who has done a couple of Super Bowls. I'm not going to go running across the court to those guys thinking that they need me to come to their rescue. I have more respect for and confidence in these people than that. They didn't get to where they are/were by not being able to handle plays.

That said, the philosophy that I've expressed in this thread is the opinion that I've formed over 15 years on the court. This is what I have come to believe. My opinon has certainly changed over time. It may change again, but for now this is what I'm doing and it is working for me.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Play I had this last season, big game, big rivals, full gym. I'm lead with post players doing what they do. A bullet pass comes in from outside. Both players reach for the ball, neither get it, it was at least 1 foot beyond either player's hands, not even close. I call B's ball. My partner comes to me, one I trust very much, and asks me if I want some help. I know he would only come in if he had something important. I welcome the input. The defender on the passer brushed the ball as it was released, not enough to slow the ball down or deflect it more than a few inches but a touch nonetheless. I blow my whistle and announce A's ball. Don't know if it changed the game but it made us a lot more credible as a crew.

That's exactly the way we're taught to do things here in my little corner of Connecticut, and it's part of almost everyone's pregame. In thirty years, working almost eight hundred high school assignments, I've only had one partner, just a single one, in thirty years, not appreciate my help. And I'm talking about offering help here, not changing someone's call.