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Old Tue Jan 23, 2007, 04:01pm
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Push?

A1 goes for rebound w/ B1. A1 is behind B1 and both are close to, and facing away from the rim. Ball is over thier heads, and both grip it at about the same time. They struggle for a second or two w/ the ball overhead then B1, the player in front, pulls the ball down so that A1 is now in contact with him from the back. Official whistles "Over the Back" (push in my book). Aside from the description, is this the right call?
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Old Tue Jan 23, 2007, 04:10pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soclueless
A1 goes for rebound w/ B1. A1 is behind B1 and both are close to, and facing away from the rim. Ball is over thier heads, and both grip it at about the same time. They struggle for a second or two w/ the ball overhead then B1, the player in front, pulls the ball down so that A1 is now in contact with him from the back. Official whistles "Over the Back" (push in my book). Aside from the description, is this the right call?
Based solely on your description of the play, that would be a held ball.

However, the official may have seen something entirely different than what you saw and therefore called a push.
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Old Tue Jan 23, 2007, 04:15pm
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I really hope the official didn't call "over the back". The way the OP reads it should have been a held ball.
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Old Tue Jan 23, 2007, 04:17pm
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Based on what you wrote, I'm going with a held ball here, but you never know what the other guy might have seen.
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Old Tue Jan 23, 2007, 04:22pm
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"Over the back". I always love when a coach yells that. I just go up to the coach and say, "show me the hand and arm signal for 'over the back.'"

Same thing with 'moving screen'.
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Old Tue Jan 23, 2007, 04:29pm
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Sometimes a quicker whistle in such situations can prevent problems, and a held ball is usually better than someone being assessed a foul. The double whistle is always exciting when one calls a jump and another calls an 'over the back' (push) call. Need to be mentally prepared for that. I know it all happens fast, that's why it's good to read about situations like this one, in advance of it happening.
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Old Tue Jan 23, 2007, 05:22pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grunewar
"Over the back". I always love when a coach yells that. I just go up to the coach and say, "show me the hand and arm signal for 'over the back.'"

Same thing with 'moving screen'.
The "over the back" and "moving screen" signals are the same as the one for a "reach".
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Old Tue Jan 23, 2007, 05:33pm
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I actually had this exact situation in a girls varsity game a couple weeks ago. THe coach of the girl who ended up with the ball in front of her asked why it wasn't a foul since the other player was reaching around his girl. I told him that they both had firm hold on the ball up high and it only ended up the way it did because his player pulled the ball down low in front of her, but that the other player didn't do anything wrong and I wasn't going to punish her for holding on to the ball.
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Old Tue Jan 23, 2007, 07:32pm
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When there's "over the back" goin' on, I try to determine if it was a push, or if it was a hold. Often times on a rebound, the person behind hooks his arm over the person in front, preventing them from their vertical movement upwards. That should be a hold, not a push.

Just a ticky tack observation and not completely related to this post, but I do agree with the held ball as stated above. Sometimes, when two players go for the rebound, they both have the ball cleanly, then they come down, still both holding the ball, but someone is underneath the other. Looks to many like it should be a foul, but the held ball is a good call there.
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Old Tue Jan 23, 2007, 07:40pm
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As described in the OP, you should call 'held ball'. When play forms like that, anticipate the action that will come, then you can be on top of it when it happens. If that ball was in firm grasp for those 1-2 moments, kill it with a held ball. Both coaches will know to thank you later by you attempting to keep each of their player's out of a foul trouble.
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Old Tue Jan 23, 2007, 07:56pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grunewar
"Over the back". I always love when a coach yells that. I just go up to the coach and say, "show me the hand and arm signal for 'over the back.'"

Same thing with 'moving screen'.
The signal for "over the back" is what I call the creeping death foul. Make the signal by putting both hands up over your head then pretend you're diving with just your arms.
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Old Tue Jan 23, 2007, 10:24pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser
The signal for "over the back" is what I call the creeping death foul. Make the signal by putting both hands up over your head then pretend you're diving with just your arms.
I've always called it the "Frankenstein." I've actually had a partner call it as such and give the "Frankenstein." This about 15 minutes after i explained to a whiny girl that there is no such thing as "over the back." There went MY credibility!
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Old Wed Jan 24, 2007, 09:29am
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Originally Posted by mplagrow
I've always called it the "Frankenstein." I've actually had a partner call it as such and give the "Frankenstein." This about 15 minutes after i explained to a whiny girl that there is no such thing as "over the back." There went MY credibility!
Your credibility was hurt because your partner doesn't know the rules? I worked with a newbie not long ago and he reported a foul as "over the back", I think he did a push mechanic. We had a little conversation about where over the back appears in the rules book.
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Old Wed Jan 24, 2007, 09:47am
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Then when Coach asks what this guy is calling, you hear your partner say,

"I totally blew that call." "In fact, it wasn't even close." "But don't worry, I'll penalize the other team. For no good reason! In the second half."
"To even things up."

ref: Subway Fresh Commercial

I would luv to say that just for gags and giggles...
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Old Wed Jan 24, 2007, 10:34am
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I had a partner tell a coach one night that had been complaining all game of "over the back" that coach "over the back is alright, ON the back is a foul and it is called a push."
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