Is this a Backcourt Violation?

[Brick43]

A-1 inbounds the ball to A-2 who is heavily contested by B-2 near the division line. A-2, in the FC, tips the ball away from the coverage and the ball goes into the BC. A-2 is the first to grab the ball. Is this BC?
I have read and reread 9.9.3 and am still unclear. Is this considered to be part of the "Throw-in exception"?

[tref]

Depends... where did the throw-in originate?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by tref

Depends... where did the throw-in originate?

Where the throw-in originates doesn't matter. The ball has neither FC or BC status during the throw-in.

[tref]

After a made basket, A-1 inbounds the ball to A-2 who is heavily contested by B-2 near the division line. A-2, in the FC, tips the ball away from the coverage and the ball goes into the BC. A-2 is the first to grab the ball.

Is that a controlled tip by A2? Or can no tip be ruled possesion like a tapped rebound that goes into the b/c?

I cannot think of a time where I've seen a b/c endline throw-in go into the f/c & tipped into the b/c by the offense.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by tref

After a made basket, A-1 inbounds the ball to A-2 who is heavily contested by B-2 near the division line. A-2, in the FC, tips the ball away from the coverage and the ball goes into the BC. A-2 is the first to grab the ball.

Is that a controlled tip by A2? Or can no tip be ruled possesion like a tapped rebound that goes into the b/c?

I cannot think of a time where I've seen a b/c endline throw-in go into the f/c & tipped into the b/c by the offense.

Still doesn't matter where the throw-in originated. If you deemed the A2's controlled tip as player control/possession would it matter if the throw-in originated in the FC?

[tref]

Right, right.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by tref

After a made basket, A-1 inbounds the ball to A-2 who is heavily contested by B-2 near the division line. A-2, in the FC, tips the ball away from the coverage and the ball goes into the BC. A-2 is the first to grab the ball.

Is that a controlled tip by A2? Or can no tip be ruled possesion like a tapped rebound that goes into the b/c?

I cannot think of a time where I've seen a b/c endline throw-in go into the f/c & tipped into the b/c by the offense.

PC requires holding or dribbling a live ball inbounds. It's either a tap, or he held it (even briefly), we have to decide which in these cases.

Rule of thumb; with .2 seconds left would you have allowed such a tap to score? If so, no control.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by tref

Is that a controlled tip by A2?

I'm sorry if I sound like I'm picking nits, or if I'm repeating myself, BUT. . .

There is no such thing as a controlled tip or tap, by rule. A "controlled tip" has no bearing on any play in determining control. Player control is established by HOLDING or DRIBBLING a LIVE ball INBOUNDS. That's it. That's the only way. So a tip or tap, even if intentionally directed, does not establish control. Ever. If you rule that A2 caught the ball before directing into the backcourt, then that's a different story and there is player control.

If the new rule is written to match the NCAA rule, with the same exceptions, then the play in the original post is legal. If they simply add "and during a throw-in" to the definition of team control, then the play in question is a violation.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

There is no such thing as a controlled tip or tap, by rule. A "controlled tip" has no bearing on any play in determining control. Player control is established by HOLDING or DRIBBLING a LIVE ball INBOUNDS. That's it. That's the only way. So a tip or tap, even if intentionally directed, does not establish control. Ever.

Scrapper1, there are some guys who think "controlled" tap means the ball actually comes to rest for a split second in the hand, therefore qualifying as being "held".

[Brick43]

You inserted after a made basket but I did not state that. The ball was side out in the FC. How this played out was that the trail official made a back court call. Although I should have been focused more in the FC it was one of those plays where I bounced the ball to the inbounder and was chopping in the clock. Therefore I saw the play unfold. I quickly called for a conference, in my mind to overturn this BC call. However my partner determined the tip was intentional and therefore established possession and control. Like someone else in this thread stated he was of the mind set that this type of tip somehow established control? I tried to explain that a tip is not control and that he was incorrect in that thinking. He then replied that even so he can't then be the 1st person to touch it in the BC. He was so persistent that he made the right call that I questioned the latter point(1st to touch after tip) and for nothing other than moving the game along agreed. So was this BC?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Brick43

You inserted after a made basket but I did not state that. The ball was side out in the FC. How this played out was that the trail official made a back court call. Although I should have been focused more in the FC it was one of those plays where I bounced the ball to the inbounder and was chopping in the clock. Therefore I saw the play unfold. I quickly called for a conference, in my mind to overturn this BC call. However my partner determined the tip was intentional and therefore established possession and control. Like someone else in this thread stated he was of the mind set that this type of tip somehow established control? I tried to explain that a tip is not control and that he was incorrect in that thinking. He then replied that even so he can't then be the 1st person to touch it in the BC. He was so persistent that he made the right call that I questioned the latter point(1st to touch after tip) and for nothing other than moving the game along agreed. So was this BC?

Only if the player held or dribbled it in the FC prior to it going into the BC. It was either a tip, a dribble, or a hold. The way you describe it, it was a tip and thus the wrong call.

Early on, I was known to talk a partner into a wrong call occasionally.

[Brick43]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Where the throw-in originates doesn't matter. The ball has neither FC or BC status during the throw-in.

The ball was side out near division line but like stated here that doesn't matter.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Brick43

A-1 inbounds the ball to A-2 who is heavily contested by B-2 near the division line. A-2, in the FC, tips the ball away from the coverage and the ball goes into the BC. A-2 is the first to grab the ball. Is this BC?
I have read and reread 9.9.3 and am still unclear. Is this considered to be part of the "Throw-in exception"?

Four things required for a BC violation:
1) TC
2) Ball in FC
3) A last to touch before ball goes to BC
4) A first to touch after ball goes to BC

Did we have all of those under THE CURRENT rules?

How about under the NEW rules?

Do we need an "exception?"