Backcourt Violation Help

[CDurham]

Do you guys and girls look at where the player is or where the ball is on a Backcourt Violation. In other words do you always see if the ball has Frontcourt status vs. Backcourt status rather than where the player touches the ball.

Had a bang/bang play on a throw in from the side line near midcourt. Team A is in their front court ball is passed to A1 near the mid court line where she touches it (gains possession) and then she steps over the line into the backcourt. I called a Violation.

I saw that the ball had Frontcourt status on the possession and then she preceded into the backcourt.

Is this the right thing to look at??

Thanks!

[justacoach]

Originally Posted by CDurham

where she touches it (gains possession)

This is very difficult to visualize. Wanna try again??

[CDurham]

Originally Posted by justacoach

This is very difficult to visualize. Wanna try again??

haha sure. I was just trying to say where she gained possession. I don't know why I added all the other.

[Freddy]

If the sitch is as I think it is, that is, on a throw-in, 9-9-3 may apply:
A player from the team not in control (defensive player or during a jump ball or throw-in) may legally jump from his/her frontcourt, secure control of the ball with both feet off the floor and return to the floor with one or both feet in the backcourt. The player may make a normal landing and it makes no difference whether the first foot down is in the frontcourt or backcourt.
Since there is no team control during a throw-in, and team control had not yet been established in the frontcourt, his/her control of the ball in the backcourt would not have been a violation due to this exception.
Is this applicable to the situation you are trying to describe?
(I'm not sure this answered the question)

[justacoach]

Originally Posted by CDurham

haha sure. I was just trying to say where she gained possession. I don't know why I added all the other.

Touching the ball does not confer control. If the ball was just touched in the f/c and not controlled til it was retrieved in the b/c, I've got nothing. Start 10 sec count and play on...

[CDurham]

Originally Posted by justacoach

Touching the ball does not confer control. If the ball was just touched in the f/c and not controlled til it was retrieved in the b/c, I've got nothing. Start 10 sec count and play on...

Right. The question I have is the applying the principles. Do you all say "Okay ball had Frontcourt status" or do you look at the position of the player to determine if it's Backcourt or not. I think its hard to explain. All I can say is do you look at the ball (determine status) or the position of the player??

Thanks

[Adam]

Originally Posted by CDurham

Right. The question I have is the applying the principles. Do you all say "Okay ball had Frontcourt status" or do you look at the position of the player to determine if it's Backcourt or not. I think its hard to explain. All I can say is do you look at the ball (determine status) or the position of the player??

Thanks

I'm not sure what you're asking. You need to know both. In your situation, the status of the ball is determined by the status of the player who is holding or dribbling it.

The way I read your situation, it's a violation. If she gained control with FC status and then stepped into the BC, it's a clear violation. Once she gains control, the throwin is over. Unless she gained control in the air and landed in the BC, in which case there is a clear exception that applies.

[jdw3018]

Perhaps a good way to explain it is, on a throw-in, you need to know what status the ball has when possession is established. If you know that, then you can rule on everything that happens after that. First, does the exception apply (airborne when ball is first touched)? If so, no violation. If it doesn't, then answer the following questions?

1. Team Control by A? (If so, move to the next)
2. Ball has frontcourt status? (If so, move to the next)
3. A was last to touch in frontcourt? (If so, move to next)
4. A was first to touch after the ball has obtained backcourt status?

If you answer yes to all, you have a violation. If you answer no to any, you don't.

These may happen quickly, but process: once you've identified control, then you just have to watch status. If it goes frontcourt to backcourt, then you have to determine who touched it last in frontcourt and who touched it first after it went backcourt.

Long explanation for: you have to watch the ball and the player.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

If you answer yes to all, you have a violation. If you answer yes to none, you don't.

Not correct, and it leaves out too many possibilities. The correct decision procedure is: "Yes to all: violation; otherwise not."

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Not correct, and it leaves out too many possibilities. The correct decision procedure is: "Yes to all: violation; otherwise not."

Right, of course, and what I meant to type. Will edit to correct. Thanks.

[CDurham]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Perhaps a good way to explain it is, on a throw-in, you need to know what status the ball has when possession is established. If you know that, then you can rule on everything that happens after that. First, does the exception apply (airborne when ball is first touched)? If so, no violation. If it doesn't, then answer the following questions?

1. Team Control by A? (If so, move to the next)
2. Ball has frontcourt status? (If so, move to the next)
3. A was last to touch in frontcourt? (If so, move to next)
4. A was first to touch after the ball has obtained backcourt status?

If you answer yes to all, you have a violation. If you answer no to any, you don't.

These may happen quickly, but process: once you've identified control, then you just have to watch status. If it goes frontcourt to backcourt, then you have to determine who touched it last in frontcourt and who touched it first after it went backcourt.

Long explanation for: you have to watch the ball and the player.

Say a player gains control with one foot in the front court and one foot on the line or in the backcourt? No Violation? Why?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by CDurham

Say a player gains control with one foot in the front court and one foot on the line or in the backcourt? No Violation? Why?

First, we need to know more.
1. Is this player establishing team control at this time? If so, no violation as you have a player establishing team control with BC status.
If TC had already been established, then it matters what happened before, and what status the ball has had prior.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by hoopsaddict

If both feet land at the same time while cathing the throw in pass then the player would have backcourt status due to his/her one foot on the line. Once she picks up the one foot on the line with the ball in his/her hand or dribbling in the front court then the player would have front court status and can't place anything (ball or either foot) in the backcourt. Doing so would be a violation.

Not quite right.
If the player is airborne when catching the ball, it doesn't matter which foot lands first. The player is entitled to a "normal landing." Even if the FC foot lands first, if a normal landing puts one foot in the back court (and on the line counts), this player has BC status with the pivot foot in the FC.

If this player then starts dribbling while BC status is in effect, the three points rule comes into play and the player will not gain FC status until the ball and both feet hit the FC in immediate succession.

As an aside: if the player gets two feet in the FC, but is dribbling in the BC, he will gain FC status by picking up the dribble.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by CDurham

Say a player gains control with one foot in the front court and one foot on the line or in the backcourt? No Violation? Why?

Work through it. Answer the four questions above.

[CDurham]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Work through it. Answer the four questions above.

If he gained possession with both (one in the frontcourt and one in the backcourt) then "Nothing". However, if he pivots the backcourt foot to the front court and then back to the backcourt then "Violation"

If he gained possession with that one foot in the frontcourt followed by the other in the backcourt then "Violation"

Right?