T-Worthy?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

JR you can quote POEs all day that does not mean that we all will use the same standard or examples as what produces a T. I know kids that call each other things that are inappropriate, but I would never consider those to be something that is an "automatic" T. The POE is created by people that do not have to live in an area and do not understand the cultural, social-economic and social expectations from different areas. I also do not recall in your POE it says the loudness matters. Or what about if a kid blows out their knee and they start cursing (I have seen this one personally), are we T'ing that too?

How about this, is "D@mn" not OK? Better yet, what about "God D@mn?" Is "Sh!t" not OK? Is one player of the same race calling another player on their team a "slur" not OK? Or does it say only "F" bombs are over the top?

I am not telling you to call what you feel or that you are wrong. I am just saying my standard is not the “F-word” and that is so bad but all other words are OK. That is why context to me and loudness does matter, but not the only factor. To me it has got to be louder than the bench hearing it too. Maybe people in the first three or four rows, but not just the bench IMO.

Jeff, I've talked to officials from sea to shining sea and they all pretty much say the following is fairly accurate in their area:

Automatic Techical Foul for Inappropriate Language(such as Fshots):
1) directed at an official or an opponent
2) loud enough to be heard in stands

Judgment Used:
1) not loud enough to be heard out of the immediate vicinity and not directed at an official or opponent.
2) extenuating circumstances like an injury.

And you want to know what is amazing to me...fwiw? I've had officials in your area agree with that also. So, I guess we'll just have have to differ on this one.

Does anybody else call it differently in their area that what I've said above?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Jeff, I've talked to officials from sea to shining sea and they all pretty much say the following is fairly accurate in their area:

Automatic Techical Foul for Inappropriate Language(such as Fshots):
1) directed at an official or an opponent
2) loud enough to be heard in stands

First of all I have never heard anyone but on this board talk about "automatic" Ts. To me that is like saying always or never. Not a term I hear any evaluator, supervisor, clinician or fellow officials that I work with use that term. I know as a clinician when I see something that happens, I might discuss how I think a situation might be handled, but I cannot recall using the term “automatic T” with any judgment action. And I actually am more likely to call a T in this situation, but what did the kid do before? Have I warned that player previously for anything? Is this early in the game? Have we passed on other similar language with the other team? Has my partners had to address other issues with this player. All of that matters and context is what matters to me.

And the OP did not say the comments could be heard in the stands or directed at an official, he said it was heard by the bench.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Judgment Used:
1) not loud enough to be heard out of the immediate vicinity and not directed at an official or opponent.
2) extenuating circumstances like an injury.

Also how loud you think it is based on a lot of things. I said I was in a gym last week where I could not hear a whistle. So this is why context matters to me. I probably want more than the bench to hear something like that to make that call only based on that word.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

And you want to know what is amazing to me...fwiw? I've had officials in your area agree with that also. So, I guess we'll just have have to differ on this one.

You do realize that the people you might be referencing "in my area" may not work for the same people I do? And I know of not a single person here that works in the "areas" that I do either across the state. And if that is not the case, then you would have to tell me who they are. I think that must be noted.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Does anybody else call it differently in their area that what I've said above?

I do not know, you would have to ask them.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You do realize that the people you might be referencing "in my area" may not work for the same people I do?

You do realize that they also may work for the same people you do? You do realize also that they may be the people you work for?

And you know I won't name names on this web site ever.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You do realize that they also may work for the same people you do? You do realize also that they may be the people you work for?

Do you think I would likely know who those you are talking about? There are only so many people here from my area that you could be talking about.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

And you know I won't name names on this web site ever.

I give you more credit than that or really did not expect you to give a name. But I think I am aware of who works for whom and why they work for them as it relates to this area. It is not like it is a secret. And if some of those worked where I did and had no place stay that is not a hotel, they would be crazy.

Peace