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Old Mon Feb 07, 2011, 02:19am
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Get it right? Double foul while shot in the air.

A1 releases shot, A2 illegal screen -vs- B1 push foul on A2.

Shot sinks, we count bucket, report double foul (A2 and B1), and then went to AP for inbound. (NFHS)

Second guessing the AP, POI?

Last edited by NoFussRef; Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 02:21am.
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Old Mon Feb 07, 2011, 02:22am
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Incorrect.

For all double fouls we resume with the point of interruption. Sometimes the POI happens to be the AP. In this case, the POI will be an undesignated throw-in for Team B.
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Old Mon Feb 07, 2011, 02:31am
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I knew something was bugging me about this one. No doubt about the double call, one of the easiest I've had to make. But something was nagging me.

POI (A1's bucket was good) B gets ball for throw in and can run endline.

Worked this game with a 3rd year Association ref (I am not). We conferenced to make sure we agreed shot had been released before double foul call. He seemed a lil unsure what to do, so I asked if he felt AP was correct and he agreed.

I will be sure to get with him and his book, find the rule and any case that applies so we can both get it right next time.
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Old Mon Feb 07, 2011, 02:38am
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For some reason, some officials think of the AP and POI as two separate things. Some don't realize that the AP is simply one of the ways we resume with the POI.
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Old Mon Feb 07, 2011, 06:31am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer View Post
For some reason, some officials think of the AP and POI as two separate things. Some don't realize that the AP is simply one of the ways we resume with the POI.
For old timers like me, it's because we used to go to the arrow, or toss a jump ball, for double fouls. The point of interruption has only been around for a few years.
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Old Mon Feb 07, 2011, 11:32am
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glad to hear that you talked w/ your partner about whether the shot was released prior to the double foul...

in my experience, the shot is almost always (99.5%) released AFTER the screen has taken place...the typical timeline is: screen, catch, shot...although it may happen, it is very unusual to have catch, shot, screen...
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Old Mon Feb 07, 2011, 12:09pm
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FWIW, I had something like this last month, only it was on a free throw.

The same rules apply. A-1 released his shot, A-2 and B-2 commit a double foul ("quit it!" one of them yells), basket is good.

Foul on A-2, foul on B-2, basket is good, B's ball for an end-line throw in. Let's play.
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Old Mon Feb 07, 2011, 12:25pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoFussRef View Post
A1 releases shot, A2 illegal screen -vs- B1 push foul on A2.

Shot sinks, we count bucket, report double foul (A2 and B1), and then went to AP for inbound. (NFHS)

Second guessing the AP, POI?

So B1 was pushing through and illegal screen by A1? I am just banging the illegal screen and be done with it.
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Old Mon Feb 07, 2011, 12:45pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodwillRef View Post
So B1 was pushing through an illegal screen by A1? I am just banging the illegal screen and be done with it.
+1

Was the push so bad that you thought it necessary to penalize?
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Old Mon Feb 07, 2011, 01:30pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
For old timers like me, it's because we used to go to the arrow, or toss a jump ball, for double fouls. The point of interruption has only been around for a few years.
I think this is where I got the idea to go to the arrow. I've learned from working with "vets" every chance I get. Having not yet joined OSAA nor have I owned a copy of NFHS book since late 1990s, I have picked up rules and how to handle odd-sitchs through experience on the court.

Like to add that finding this forum has been a wealth of information and appreciate the way (most posters) seem to share my genuine love of the game and enthusiasm to always improve while helping less experienced grow.

(Plan to join Association before next season.)
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Old Mon Feb 07, 2011, 01:43pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWMOzebra View Post
+1

Was the push so bad that you thought it necessary to penalize?
Yeppers. I too tend to always go with first-come-first-served on sitchs like this, however this was an easy one for me, they both saw it coming, this was no "collision" and the push was at the exact same moment as the block.

I am far more likely to hand out doubles on the excessive bump-and-grind on the block than I am on a bad screen. It was B's decision to try and plow through while extending his arms into A's upper body. I had a great look at this one.

As for shot being long gone, the point-guard didn't wait for the screen to drive he stepped back and put up a jumper just as the offense was trying to set up.

(This was 8th grade Quad-A Boys. Even both coaches liked the double call. AP happened to be B's ball so I guess it might have looked right, even though we should've gone POI and they shouldn't have lost the next AP.)

Thanks again to this forum for helping new and old improve.

Last edited by NoFussRef; Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 02:05pm.
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Old Mon Feb 07, 2011, 02:10pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoFussRef View Post
I am far more likely to hand out doubles on the excessive bump-and-grind on the block than I am on a bad screen.
Agree. And I am far more likely to hand out such double fouls early in the season, as well as early in the game.
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Old Mon Feb 07, 2011, 02:17pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoFussRef View Post
Yeppers. I too tend to always go with first-come-first-served on sitchs like this, however this was an easy one for me, they both saw it coming, this was no "collision" and the push was at the exact same moment as the block.

I am far more likely to hand out doubles on the excessive bump-and-grind on the block than I am on a bad screen. It was B's decision to try and plow through while extending his arms into A's upper body. I had a great look at this one.

As for shot being long gone, the point-guard didn't wait for the screen to drive he stepped back and put up a jumper just as the offense was trying to set up.

(This was 8th grade Quad-A Boys. Even both coaches liked the double call. AP happened to be B's ball so I guess it might have looked right, even though we should've gone POI and they shouldn't have lost the next AP.)

Thanks again to this forum for helping new and old improve.
If the push was as bad as you say maybe just go with the foul on Team B if that was the one that everyone say.
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Old Mon Feb 07, 2011, 02:44pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodwillRef View Post
If the push was as bad as you say maybe just go with the foul on Team B if that was the one that everyone say.
He said it was an easy call to go DF, why are we questioning this as if he's calling a DF on a screen every game?
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Old Mon Feb 07, 2011, 02:48pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
He said it was an easy call to go DF, why are we questioning this as if he's calling a DF on a screen every game?
Because a DF on an illegal screen is a cop-out 99.9% of the time. Hell, a DF itself is a cop-out at least 95% of the time.

Either call the screen or call the push, don't call both. It would be just like calling a DF on a block/charge because the defender didn't have LGP but the offensive player lowered his shoulder.
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