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Old Wed Jan 26, 2011, 09:04am
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Another Injury stoppage scenario

Last night GV. Team B splits starters w/bench players and are rotating squads every 4 minutes or so. One group has 3 players: 6'3", 6'1", 6' that just tower middle. A1 shoots and B1 gets ball. B1 holds ball with arms straight up and pivots. She lowers arm to begin dribble. As she does this A1 dives in towards her and bangs into B1 shoulder and backs off like she hit hot stove.

B1 pushes ball and passes on FB. After pass, A1 walks over to her bench area and covers face with hands. I can see no blood. Hands covering face. B continues on FB and B2 goes in for lay-up. It's missed but the 3 towers (remember the towers) are taking turns tapping the ball back the basket. A1 still holding face and coach IRATE! He wants me to stop play. I don't see that A1 is hurt all that badly. Still no blood. Partner and I let play continue until finally A3 taps ball in. Throughout this time the ball was never grasped by anyone after the initial lay-up attempt. After bucket, we whistle for injury. Partner goes down to deal with coach as we have had a history.

A1's lip was cut on braces. No blood on uniform, no blood on floor - just inside her lip. Coach threatening to sue, yada, yada, yada. We start clock to replace and game goes on. BTW, at this point in game A is down 43 - 15. A couple other varsity refs in crowd were talking with us after the game and said while they believed we handled it according to Hoyle - perhaps we could have whistled the injury after the initial missed lay-up due to the score. Partner and I disagreed as no one ever had control of ball. What say you to this scenario and other refs thoughts?
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Old Wed Jan 26, 2011, 09:13am
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Originally Posted by chartrusepengui View Post
... Coach threatening to sue, yada, yada, yada. We start clock to replace and game goes on...
Just interested. Sue you for what? You didn't endanger B1 as she was on the sideline away from all the action.
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Old Wed Jan 26, 2011, 09:24am
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I think you probably should have killed it as soon as the ball was released on the first try. The ball doesn't have to be in anyone's possession for you to kill it. If it goes in, B get the ball to inbound. If not, you go to the arrow. Either way you've given A their play.

That said, I also don't have a real problem with what you did as you in no way endangered the apparently injured player.
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Old Wed Jan 26, 2011, 09:27am
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I'm not worried about being "sued" - nothing there for that. I believe I would have stopped play had someone actually grasped the ball but since A1 in no danger at all and no blood - I decided that the play had not finished.
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Old Wed Jan 26, 2011, 10:32am
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I would have handled it exactly the same way.
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Old Wed Jan 26, 2011, 10:38am
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Rule 5-8-2 note kinda breaks it down of when to stop the play. Judegment call as always.
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Old Wed Jan 26, 2011, 11:00am
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Originally Posted by PG_Ref View Post
Rule 5-8-2 note kinda breaks it down of when to stop the play. Judegment call as always.
I would have stopped the play when B1 put up their first shot. No reason to continue letting them bat the ball around like that.
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Old Wed Jan 26, 2011, 11:11am
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I would have stopped the play when B1 put up their first shot. No reason to continue letting them bat the ball around like that.
They were not just "batting" the ball around. These were legitimate taps with reasonable chances of going in. The ball spent a lot of time on the rim.

I guess our thoughts were that there was really no reason not to. Player was standing, no sign of blood gushing or dripping, as she was in the backcourt her proximity to the play/players placed her in no danger what so ever.

And - I'm going to say it .......... it was girls varsity. I see a lot more girls with minor bumps etc blowing things way out of proportion than I see in with the boys. That statement is not a judgement - it's just a fact of what we have seen. This was another reason that we waited for the play to finish.
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Old Wed Jan 26, 2011, 11:15am
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Originally Posted by chartrusepengui View Post
They were not just "batting" the ball around. These were legitimate taps with reasonable chances of going in. The ball spent a lot of time on the rim.

I guess our thoughts were that there was really no reason not to. Player was standing, no sign of blood gushing or dripping, as she was in the backcourt her proximity to the play/players placed her in no danger what so ever.

And - I'm going to say it .......... it was girls varsity. I see a lot more girls with minor bumps etc blowing things way out of proportion than I see in with the boys. That statement is not a judgement - it's just a fact of what we have seen. This was another reason that we waited for the play to finish.
Sorry, I didn't mean to question your decision. You were there, I wasn't. Looking at 5-8-2, though, it says to stop the play as soon as team control is lost.

It also says "may," however, so the judgment is yours.

Any thoughts on ringing up the coach for threatening you during the game?
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Old Wed Jan 26, 2011, 11:17am
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Originally Posted by chartrusepengui View Post
They were not just "batting" the ball around. These were legitimate taps with reasonable chances of going in. The ball spent a lot of time on the rim.
I guess the point being made is that the whistle should have been blown when "B" released the ball for the 1st try attempt off the fast break ... that's if you wanted to blow it dead.
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Old Wed Jan 26, 2011, 11:18am
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Any thoughts on ringing up the coach for threatening you during the game?
Yes. Being sued would definitely affect my life outside of basketball.

There's no need for making it personal like this: T 'im up.
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Old Wed Jan 26, 2011, 11:21am
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Sorry, I didn't mean to question your decision. You were there, I wasn't. Looking at 5-8-2, though, it says to stop the play as soon as team control is lost.

It also says "may," however, so the judgment is yours.

Any thoughts on ringing up the coach for threatening you during the game?
As I said, there is a history. This comment was not yelled across court. His AC's heard as did I and perhaps the injured player. It was pretty tame for him. He is an a$$ and I have rung him up in the past - but given his frustration from getting butt kicked and the fact that this was tame for him I let it go. Again - I have no real worries. It was his way of whining and nothing more. Funny thing though - and I really didn't think of it until you asked. But after the injury - he pretty much remained seated. And stopped coaching as well.
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Old Wed Jan 26, 2011, 11:37am
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Any thoughts on ringing up the coach for threatening you during the game?
I would have T'd him for that comment
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Old Wed Jan 26, 2011, 12:16pm
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Originally Posted by chartrusepengui View Post
I don't see that A1 is hurt all that badly.
Can't call what you don't see.
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Old Wed Jan 26, 2011, 12:52pm
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Can't call what you don't see.
He saw she was hurt, but didn't know how badly. That's different than not knowing she was hurt at all.
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