Contact lense stoppage

[Buckley11]

If a player a)loses a contact lense and game is stopped to try to find it or b)loses a contact lense and simply needs to put it back into his/eye, what is proper administration in regards to player remaining in the game, etc?

Is this handled with the "injured player" procedure, ie player must leave game or be "bought" back into the game with a timeout. If the player can put it back in his/her eye in a very brief period of time, can they simply stay in the game without any circumstances?

Is NCAA and NF similar on this?

Thanks

[Ref Daddy]

Not quoting rule book .....

Glass's and contacts dislodged get a stop. Nothing else. Referee timeout. More so in the lower levels. Higher levels don't stop a play in progress but at the first "fair" break in play.

[ref18]

Being a glasses wearer myself, i know the cost to replace broken glasses or contact lenses. So, as soon as i see a pair of glasses on the floor, or a player tells me he's lost a contact, i stop play immediately to get everything cleared up. If the player finds his/her contact, and wants to put it back on, i direct them to go to a water fountain or bathroom to wash it out first. I don' t think its a good idea to stick something that's been on the floor into your eye. If they can go on without it, i allow them to leave it somewhere and continue playing.

[WinterWillie]

Originally posted by Ref Daddy
Not quoting rule book .....

Glass's and contacts dislodged get a stop. Nothing else. Referee timeout. More so in the lower levels. Higher levels don't stop a play in progress but at the first "fair" break in play.

When you check the book at the ten minute mark before the game begins, you should ask each coach to put in the book contact lenses and inhalers by each player's name who uses them. If that is done and you have an incident where a player loses a lens or has an asthma attack, you do not have to charge a TO to team whose player may be involved. If they have not put them in the book, then you will have to charge a TO to the team. The importance of this cannot be overstated because in the late stages of a very close game a team that does not list these things could be charged a timeout when they don't have any timeouts left which could then result in the team being assessed a technical foul. Or on the other hand, if you have an unscrupulous, savy coach, he/she may have a player act like he/she has lost a lens during a close games if he feels he needs a timeout and he doesn't want to use the one he has left in an attempt to save it for the end of the game.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by WinterWillie

When you check the book at the ten minute mark before the game begins, you should ask each coach to put in the book contact lenses and inhalers by each player's name who uses them. If that is done and you have an incident where a player loses a lens or has an asthma attack, you do not have to charge a TO to team whose player may be involved. If they have not put them in the book, then you will have to charge a TO to the team.

Willie - want to give us a rule book reference to back this up? Without one, I'm stopping the clock for an injured/potentially injured player (especially in the case of an asthmatic) and not charging anyone with the timeout.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by WinterWillie

When you check the book at the ten minute mark before the game begins, you should ask each coach to put in the book contact lenses and inhalers by each player's name who uses them. If that is done and you have an incident where a player loses a lens or has an asthma attack, you do not have to charge a TO to team whose player may be involved. If they have not put them in the book, then you will have to charge a TO to the team. The importance of this cannot be overstated because in the late stages of a very close game a team that does not list these things could be charged a timeout when they don't have any timeouts left which could then result in the team being assessed a technical foul. Or on the other hand, if you have an unscrupulous, savy coach, he/she may have a player act like he/she has lost a lens during a close games if he feels he needs a timeout and he doesn't want to use the one he has left in an attempt to save it for the end of the game.

Yo Willie...do you do this really? I mean really? I dunno...life's complicated enough for me...if a coach or player is this clever let him have the freebie.

FWIW...last month I had a juco game where a player was fouled, after I report instead of going to the line he goes to the bench. As he passed me he told me he lost a lense on the foul (he was hit in the face). The opposing coach starts in on me "you can't let him do that! he's got to go to the line now or come out!" I simply said "coach, he lost a contact lense" and the coach sat down. Now...what if he ran to the book demanding to see where the little "c" for contact lense was next to his name?

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by WinterWillie
When you check the book at the ten minute mark before the game begins, you should ask each coach to put in the book contact lenses and inhalers by each player's name who uses them. If that is done and you have an incident where a player loses a lens or has an asthma attack, you do not have to charge a TO to team whose player may be involved. If they have not put them in the book, then you will have to charge a TO to the team. The importance of this cannot be overstated because in the late stages of a very close game a team that does not list these things could be charged a timeout when they don't have any timeouts left which could then result in the team being assessed a technical foul. Or on the other hand, if you have an unscrupulous, savy coach, he/she may have a player act like he/she has lost a lens during a close games if he feels he needs a timeout and he doesn't want to use the one he has left in an attempt to save it for the end of the game.

Willie, that's completely archaic. There's no rule to back up such a process or assessing a technical foul if the player's condition isn't noted in the book.

If a player says he's lost a CL, you stop play at an opportune time per the injury rule. If it can be secured, he secures it, and play continues. But you don't note this type of thing in the scorebook nor do you ask the captain these questions during pre-game.

[WinterWillie]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Willie, that's completely archaic. There's no rule to back up such a process or assessing a technical foul if the player's condition isn't noted in the book.

If a player says he's lost a CL, you stop play at an opportune time per the injury rule. If it can be secured, he secures it, and play continues. But you don't note this type of thing in the scorebook nor do you ask the captain these questions during pre-game.

I've been doing this for years since I was instructed to do so by our state interpreter and our local association interpreter. Our state athletic association directives supersede any NFHS rules. Our state directives often vary from federation rules such as the one whether to signal when the defensive player is not within 6' of the offensive player
Whereas, federation does not direct you to use , our state
directs us to use it. Our state athletic association also requires the home team to have an athletic trainer present at every athletic contest-a very expensive proposition. Let me
stress, the safety of the players is our first and foremost concern when we (as officials) are on the court. The purpose in requiring coaches to put this in the book is a preventative mechanic and I have NEVER had a coach (we only ask the coaches not the captains) object to it in all the years that we have used it. Why would the coaches object? It also lessens any liability that may arise from a negligence lawsuit. If you had a player collapse on the court, wouldn't you want to know he had an asthmatic condition. If a player tells you he has lost a contact lens how would you know if he was wearing lens and could be believed, after all, how many times have you called a foul on a player only to have them deny it. If they wanted to use a trick play out there, this is a way to avoid it. A technical foul is the least of our concerns!

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by WinterWillie
I've been doing this for years since I was instructed to do so by our state interpreter and our local association interpreter. Our state athletic association directives supersede any NFHS rules. Our state directives often vary from federation rules such as the one whether to signal when the defensive player is not within 6' of the offensive player.

That doesn't make it any less archaic and antiquated. No one does this anymore. How long ago were you told to do this? You might want to check with your state association to see if it is still common practice.

If you had a player collapse on the court, wouldn't you want to know he had an asthmatic condition. If a player tells you he has lost a contact lens how would you know if he was wearing lens...

So, if a kid collapses and it's not in the book that he has epileptic seizures, you're not going to stop play? Are you going to run over to the book and check it?

If a kid tells you he's lost a contact, and he's not in the book, are you going to ignore him? Let's say you stop the game, he's not in the book, are you going to call T? What if he finds it and shows it to you?

I hope I know the answer to those questions. The point is, whether this is in the book or not, I'm going to stop play when necessary. In the 18+ years I've been officiating, I've never done what you suggest. And in that same 18 years, I've had a kid tell me he lost his contact lens exactly ONE time. Honestly, it's not that big of a problem.

A technical foul is the least of our concerns!

I can't argue with you there.

Look, I'm not beating you up, especially if that's what they told you to do. But it's not necessary. It's a non-issue. If it was, it would be an NF rule. If your state is requiring an athletic trainer on the bench, then he should be aware if a player has a medical condition. I've also had coaches come to me before a game and tell me that "#4 is deaf" or "#44 has ...." That's fine. But I didn't to have that written in the scorebook.

Years ago, contacts lens were $300 or $400 a pair. It was necessary to stop and find a CL. Now, they're $17 a box of 6. If the kid loses one, he goes to the bench and pops another one in. It's crazy to try and enforce this with a technical foul.

[Edited by BktBallRef on Jan 10th, 2004 at 01:15 PM]

[PAULK1]

as far as the eyewear/lens it is covered under
"5-11 exceptions: No time out is charged:
1. if in 5-8-3 the players request results from displaced eyeglasses/lens"

There is no requirement for that player to leave the contest
or for the team to use a TO to keep the player in the contest as if injured. This stoppage is to prevent injury
and to protect the eyewear/lens. after recovering the eyewear/lens (maybe a brief moment to clean)the player must be ready to play or must leave the game.

In the case of an asthmatic player any request to stop play
is treated like an injury stoppage. per 3-3-5 and 5-8-2

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by WinterWillie
[/B]

I've been doing this for years since I was instructed to do so by our state interpreter and our local association interpreter. Our state athletic association directives supersede any NFHS rules. Our state directives often vary from federation rules such as the one whether to signal when the defensive player is not within 6' of the offensive player

[/B][/QUOTE]If your State interpreter and local interpreter tell you to do it, then you do it. It's that simple. Btw, just wondering-what state? I've never heard of this one. Also btw, there was never a FED rule or mechanic for a signal on a closely guarded situation. That's a college mechanic.

[WinterWillie]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BktBallRef
I've also had coaches come to me before a game and tell me that "#4 is deaf" or "#44 has ...." That's fine. But I did to have that written in the scorebook.

In today's litigious society, a very wise thing to do,
as you know you need to cover your back.

The state association says thats the way it is, that is the final word.

The technical foul would be as a result of the timeout created by deception of the team to stop play for the lens which wasn't in the book that put them over the limit (5). I have never seen it happen.

The athletic trainers are aware of the health history of their own players but are only there to attend to players injured on the visiting team. NFHS rules do not require an athletic trainer at games.

[BktBallRef]

Willie,

I'm not you're enemy, partner. If your state says do it, then do it. But again, you said you've been doing this for years. When was the last time someone told you this is still the policy? What state are you in? Do they have this is writing anywhere, so that new officials may read it?

As for this deception that your state seems to fear, there's no guarantee, that just because it's marked in the book, you're going to prevent a coach from pulling such a stunt.

I'm a coach. Before the game, I indicate in the scorebook that every player on my roster wears contact lens or I indicate that #34 wears CL. With 30 seconds to go, I'm out of TOs. Any player or #34 tells you that he's lost his CL. You stop the clock, and we look for the CL. But guess what? We aren't going to find it, because he doesn't wear CL. But you have no way of knowing that. What are you going to do? You can't prove it. That's why you've never seen it. It just doesn't work.

Further, noting such in the score book does nothing from a legal standpoint. If you stop the play when a player goes down, you don't have to concern yourself with whether it was noted in the book or note. You do what's right, which is stopping the clock, without considering whether they "might" be trying to get away with something.

It simply isn't necessary. Notice that you're not getting tons of replies supporting this idea either. But if your state says do, do it.

Stay warm. I'm sure trying to!

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by WinterWillie
I've been doing this for years since I was instructed to do so by our state interpreter and our local association interpreter.

(snip)

The purpose in requiring coaches to put this in the book is a preventative mechanic and I have NEVER had a coach (we only ask the coaches not the captains) object to it in all the years that we have used it. Why would the coaches object?

If it's a standard practice, wouldn't the coaches just put the info in the book as a matter of course? You should rarely need to ask.

[WinterWillie]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

I've been doing this for years since I was instructed to do so by our state interpreter and our local association interpreter. Our state athletic association directives supersede any NFHS rules. Our state directives often vary from federation rules such as the one whether to signal when the defensive player is not within 6' of the offensive player

[/B]

If your State interpreter and local interpreter tell you to do it, then you do it. It's that simple. Btw, just wondering-what state? I've never heard of this one. Also btw, there was never a FED rule or mechanic for a signal on a closely guarded situation. That's a college mechanic. [/B][/QUOTE]

It is not a NFHS rule or mechanic, it is a directive from our state athletic association.