stoppage of the clock

[jeffb]

We play in a youth football league which follows the IHSA rules. We play 10 min. stop clock game. The ref's are saying on a change of possesion you start the clock when the ball is put into play by them not at the snap...Is this right or did we have 3 guys working their fourth game that wanted to get out of there??

[JRutledge]

I have told you this before, there is no such thing as IHSA rules. The IHSA does not make a rulebook. The National Federation does and that is the rules that the IHSA uses. But they apply to HS sports and HS sports only.

Secondly you are referencing a youth football game. All the timing rules from the NF do not necessarily apply to youth football. They do not use the same rules as it relates to NF rules. I know of many leagues that this was the case (when the clock started) and this would apply to many youth leagues. These games have many rules that have modification in place that are vastly different from NF Rules. A great example of this is the mercy rule (which is not an NF rule in Illinois) that we use in HS. That affects all the timing situations, but when we use them are not the same as youth football.

It sounds like they were right. The only way you are going to know that is to ask the league officials. We will never be able to answer your question, unless someone happens to know what league you work and what their experiences are.

Peace

[jeffb]

below is from TCYFL.org they think there is a ihsa rule book...pg 24 in our rules for tcyfl in northern il. and every ref I have asked has said they should have stopped the clock on out of bound, incomplete pass, and change of pos. So I here ya but I am hearing and reading diff things. jeff


SECTION V. GAME RULES
Part 1 – Basis of Rules
A. IHSA
All play is based on Illinois High School Association (IHSA) Rules and principles. IHSA
Rules are published each year and should be obtained directly by each Member
Community for study, review and dissemination with their organizations.

[mcrowder]

In all of our local "running-clock" agegroups, we always start the clock on the ready with only one exception - after a timeout. We stop it (briefly) on scores, change of possession, penalties, but start it again when ready.

So after a turnover, stop the clock, make it ready and start the clock. After a penalty - same thing. After a score - stop it until the kickoff, and run it after the kick return is done.

Then again - when you get to the "mercy rule running clock", it runs and runs and runs unless there is a time out or injury. (Sometimes nearly 2 minutes run off after a score - during the try and during the setup for the kickoff)

[jeffb]

what do you do on an incomplete pass?

[mcrowder]

Run it.

Out of bounds ... run it.

First down ... run it.

[JRutledge]

I have been an IHSA licensed official for almost 10 years and I have never seen an IHSA Rulebook. The test that I take for all sports comes directly from the National Federation of High Schools. It might seem like semantics, but it is a very important distinction. There are rules that the IHSA adheres to, but those are not in the NF Rulebook. And those rules apply to only IHSA Members. The IHSA has no say over what non-IHSA members do. There is also the Illinois Elementary School Association that governs member schools that play games at levels 8th grade and below. They adhere to NF Rules but also modify many of their practices. They give officials all kinds of information as to what those are.

I have worked some Pop Warner and Bill George Leagues in my time as a football official. I also work a Grade School Catholic League on Sundays and there are many rules they use that have nothing to do with IHSA. Timing rules are one of them. The clock in that league does not run to the letter of NF rules. And their mercy rule is totally different as well. I have never seen "stripers" in HS football as I do in youth football.

What I am saying it sounds like the guys know what they are talking about. If they used the NF rules for timing to a tee, the games would take so much longer. Usually the ready for play starts the clock in many leagues I have worked. It is possible that the officials knew exactly what they were talking about. But the problem is also we do not know the rules of the league. They might say they follow the IHSA rules, but then make exceptions as to who can carry the ball, what weight the players are to participate. There is all kind of rules that do not just apply. I know some leagues did not allow a team winning by a certain margin to run outside of the tackles (but never tell the officials how to exactly enforce the rule). It is very possible they know what they were talking about. You have to ask those that run the league, not us. I am just sharing my experiences and what I had to do. Your league could be totally different.


Peace

[jeffb]

Guys here is my problem the ref's are not doing all the same thing every ref I have talked to at other tcyfl games and also our first game says...we are a 10 minute stop clock league ...out of bounds stop it, incomplete pass stop it, change of pos stop it....well, please tell me in a il high school game what happens with a change of pos. I am being told that is what should happen at our game. thanks jeff

[Snake~eyes]

Originally posted by jeffb
Guys here is my problem the ref's are not doing all the same thing every ref I have talked to at other tcyfl games and also our first game says...we are a 10 minute stop clock league ...out of bounds stop it, incomplete pass stop it, change of pos stop it....well, please tell me in a il high school game what happens with a change of pos. I am being told that is what should happen at our game. thanks jeff

Maybe they have to get the game done in the allotted time so speeidng up the clock is the only way to complete this. Or maybe they just use modified timing rules which is a great possiblity.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by jeffb
Guys here is my problem the ref's are not doing all the same thing every ref I have talked to at other tcyfl games and also our first game says...we are a 10 minute stop clock league ...out of bounds stop it, incomplete pass stop it, change of pos stop it....well, please tell me in a il high school game what happens with a change of pos. I am being told that is what should happen at our game. thanks jeff

Is there a clock on the field or is there a clock on a scoreboard? And even if that is the case either way, the officials in most youth football that I have seen, the officials keep the clock on the field. Even when there is a clock used on a scoreboard, they screw it up so much that you cannot use it at all.

Let me also state this. Unless you talk to the league's board or rules members, this conversation is not going to go anywhere. It is possible that coaches and other observers do not understand the basic rules of the leagues. I know this because folks in the leagues always try to come up with a rules application that is written no where or that does not apply at all to the league or level in question. Also a lot of youth officials are new and do not understand the differences between NF and youth league ball. It is possible that what you saw was a misapplication of the timing rules. It is also possible that you misunderstood what was taking place if there was no stadium clock used. There are a lot of possibilities. I will say this; I would run the clock whenever possible.

Peace

[jeffb]

Why will not anyone answer the question in a IL high school game what does the clock do in a change of pos. They were wrong can't anyone say they blew it!!!

[jeffb]

Clock is on the scoreboard and the league's answer is whatever a ref would do in a IL high school game on a change of pos...what is so hard if you are a ref at a high school game in IL what do you do on a change of pos. with the clock stop or not.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by jeffb
Why will not anyone answer the question in a IL high school game what does the clock do in a change of pos. They were wrong can't anyone say they blew it!!!

You are talking about youth football. What goes on at an IHSA game does not have to apply. It is called Illinois High School Association, not Illinois Youth League Association or IYLA. It is very possible that they were right. The leagues I worked the clock started on the ready, not the snap after a change of possession. I would assume this is the case here. Just a guess, but they might have been right.

Peace

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by jeffb
Why will not anyone answer the question in a IL high school game what does the clock do in a change of pos. They were wrong can't anyone say they blew it!!!

There's nothing wrong with what they did. Just because the clock starts on the snap in a varsity game, it doesn't mean that it happens that way at lower level games.

In my state, in JV and other lower level games, the clock starts on the ready whistle after a change of possession.

If you have more than one game scheduled on a field, and I was the referee, we would start the clock on the ready, until a superior told me otherwise.

[jeffb]

I am being told by league officals the call would be whatever the call would be in a IL high school game and what might that be?????