I violated rule #1.....not THAT rule #1

[tref]

I respect that Judtech!!

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

That is the best lesson for everyone to learn from this situation.

My comment about "involving the players in the a$$-ness" was directed at the whole "stand at the 3-point line"...you knew the officials were wrong, but you wanted to show them up. And to do so, you involved your players - they were told by one authority figure to do one thing, and then by another authority figure to do something contradictory. To me - as a teacher, father, coach, and official - that is deplorable. You "used" your players to prove a point. That violates the trust they - and their parents - place in you as a coach.

So I would hope that you not only made your point above about being right, but also apologized for putting them in a situation they should not have been in.

Off my soap box now.

Great soap box to be on. I see where you are coming from in your post now. If I may, I would LOVE to share an exchange our team had, I will try (and fail) to make it brief. We only have 3 rules on our team, one of which is "Control what you can control" During our practice meeting one of the players said "Yeah coach you violated Rule #2. Like you always say, you can't control what the official does, but you can control how you respond to it. SO since you broke a rule we have to bench you!" Then it occured to them that since I already am on the bench it wasn't that big a deal, so they thought I should run!!! I told them that since THEY followed rule #2 and I didn't I would give them a 5 Sprint credit they could use any time in practice!!! Kids, just when you think they don't pay attention!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Judtech

"The worst example of a person trying to coach" is a bit hyperbolic, and while petty and personal attacks are something you default to, in this case I take exception.

I deliberately said it that way because the vast majority of coaches that I've met over the years would never dream of doing any of the despicable crap that you described...and gloated about...in your original post. Guilt by association with someone like you...and I hate to say it but your wife also because it seems she condones your actions.... would have just been wrong on my part.

You just don't get it, Judtech. I worry about my fellow officials...and the state of basketball. I worry about all of the players. I worry about the good coaches that we meet, the ones that care for the game and teaching life lessons. Do I care or worry about coaches like you? Never. You eventually reap what you sow, and now you're reaping it in this thread. And there's nothing personal about it either. It's an indictment of all the coaches that share your team-first no matter what mentality.

End of wasted sermon. Fell free to ignore.

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by tref

I respect that Jedtech!!

How can you RESPECT this guy!

Jedtech...you have got to be joking.

There is no way anyone with a half a brain would post the bullsh**t you did and the way you acted.

Oh wait, you must have a half a brain to act that way when YOU ARE, SUPPOSEDLY, AN OFFICIAL!! ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

I quit reading your posts after the first few...and yes I am piling on.

I would do everything in my power, if you were in my association, to have you suspended.

There...I feel better now.

[tref]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

How can you RESPECT this guy!

I respect his following statement. He acknowledges his mistake & aims to do better in the future. What more can he or any of us (who makes mistakes in life) do?

Originally Posted by Judtech

Agree 100% it is a VERY difficult thing to do. 99 times out of 100 I just do my Jerry Tarkanian imitation and gnaw on a towel (even shared a few of those instances on the board) Screwed the pooch on this one. You also bring up a GREAT point that I discussed with fellow referee's a few years ago. I don't know how long you have officiated, but for younger/newer officials it can be a bit intimidating to some to work a game where the AD and/or coach has officiating background. (which sounds like what you were experiencing) They may start second guessing what THEY are doing, and start to think about what the AD/Coach thinks. That is a recipe for failure. It would be akin to when I first started calling and my supervisor would be in the stands watching. Was I making/not making calls for the GAME or for THEM. After awhile, you don't even notice/care if they are there are not. A great take away from this experience for ME is to have that in the back of my mind for 30 year vets not just "newbies".

[Jesse James]

Judtech,

In your coaching position, I wouldn't support your questioning of judgement calls, or your methods in general. But I will agree that when a crew at the varsity level either sets aside a rule, or doesn't know a rule, that someone from the coaching staff ought to be able to make that known to them--and if it has to be an example, so-be-it.

In a state without assignors, how else are you going to make that point?

[tref]

Originally Posted by Jesse James

But I will agree that when a crew at the varsity level either sets aside a rule, or doesn't know a rule, that someone from the coaching staff ought to be able to make that known to them--and if it has to be an example, so-be-it.

Absolutely! Just as long as that someone is THE HEAD COACH

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Jesse James

In a state without assignors, how else are you going to make that point?

By following whatever protocol that state has set up to deal with complaints about officials? All states have them afaik.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by tref

Absolutely! Just as long as that someone is THE HEAD COACH

I agree, but if the officials start addressing the AC, there's nothing wrong with him responding. Whether the AC can make these points is really up to the officials on the game, not the officials on the board.

[Jesse James]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

By following whatever protocol that state has set up to deal with complaints about officials? All states have them afaik.

Well, in at least one, he's money ahead to do what he did.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

How can you RESPECT this guy!

Would anyone respect any coach that came here and made a post like the OP, gloating about how they intimidated and showed up some obviously weak officials while gaining an unfair advantage like icing the shooter at the same time? Judtech was not posting as an official. He was posting as a coach, and as an assistant coach to boot. That he was also an official only compounds the problem imo. Officials should know better.

JMO

[tref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I agree, but if the officials start addressing the AC, there's nothing wrong with him responding. Whether the AC can make these points is really up to the officials on the game, not the officials on the board.

Good point! That's why I generally ask the HC, "I know he (AC) isnt speaking to me... IS HE?"
99% of the time I get, "Bobby I'll ask the questions around here!"

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Jesse James

In a state without assignors, how else are you going to make that point?

Isn't it easier in states without assigners? To make your point, have the AD scratch the official and never hire him, her or them again.

[Jesse James]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Isn't it easier in states without assigners? To make your point, have the AD scratch the official and never hire him, her or them again.

That's fine at home. There's always the road, and while it's not a coach's problem, the other hundreds of schools in the state where the crew may screw up the rule otherwise.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Jesse James

That's fine at home. There's always the road, and while it's not a coach's problem, the other hundreds of schools in the state where the crew may screw up the rule otherwise.

OK fair point on home vs. away but then how many officials are really going to be looking to take constructive criticism from a coach during a game? Does not seem to be very effective in my view.