If I could change one rule, it would be....

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Expected I suppose but my partner also told me in no uncertain terms that was a bad call.

Originally Posted by RichMSN

You really have to take middle school coaches and partners with a grain of salt.

And SOME middle school partners.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

You really have to take middle school coaches and partners with a grain of salt.

The best part of working varsity ball is that you rarely see that level of stupidity from players and when you do, the coach will usually be on the player, not you.

I certainly hear you on that one. Most of the JV and even Sophomore games I've worked have been worlds better than the Jr High and Freshman games, in terms of both the quality of the partners and the coaches. No big surprise there, I realize.

[Refsmitty]

Allowing coaches to be on the bench

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

(Not talking to you, but just as good a place as any to jump in....)

Of course that's what I meant, too. I'm not calling that tap with the ball handler past the defender at *any* point of the game and certainly not here, either.

But there are fouls near the end of the game where, had they happened earlier, I would've passed and hesitated to see if the ball handler could play through the contact. Big difference is that early in the game, the defender is trying to avoid picking up the foul and will immediately back off if he's close to getting caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

Late in the game, the contact will escalate (normally) until we call the foul. That first bump, well, I see no reason to see if A can play through it. Because if I do, the next contact could lead to injury, retaliation, or worse.

If we have a timeout, we'll be getting together and saying, "They're going to be trying to foul. Let's get the first one."

Regarding intentional fouls -- I see no reason to be a pioneer. I call them when the game and the NFHS expects them to be called.

This is exactly what I was referring to in my post several pages back.

As 26 Year Gap commented, it's game management.
..................
Bainsey,

One of our main responsibilities as officials is to keep the game under control while at the same time not controlling the game. Sounds convoluted I know, but what it means is that we keep the game within the rules and guidelines set down by NFHS or whatever governing body. Beyond that, it's up to the players to decide the outcome as long as they stay within those limits. While we may not like a particular strategy they employ, it's strictly none of our business as long as it stays within those limits.

As the POE cited by BBR points out, this is an recognized strategy by NFHS. Bottom line is that if the defense wants to foul, they're going to foul. It's our job to recognize that situation and call the first legitimate contact to keep it from escalating. What Rich said above and others have seconded is, IMHO, the best way to handle this.

[bainsey]

Thanks, Tim. Well said.

Originally Posted by Welpe

I called one last year in a middle school game when a team was fouling late in the game. The player grabbed his opponent and bear hugged him big time. Easy intentional in my view but boy did the fouling team's coach come unglued on that one.

I had a similar one at a similar level some time ago. I report the INT, look at the coach for his question, and with a strong glare, he states, "You DON'T make that call at the end of a game!"

Clearly, the younger coach was operating from a myth. All we can do is battle these myths by doing what's right.

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Finally, don't call me sir.

If you say so, but I find it interesting that request comes from the Carolinas, where I spent my teen years and learned to be respectful like that.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by bainsey

If you say so, but I find it interesting that request comes from the Carolinas, where I spent my teen years and learned to be respectful like that.

You conveniently edited out the that Bktballref put at the end of that sentence. It was meant in jest, probably because "sir" makes him feel like the old man he is.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

You conveniently edited out the that Bktballref put at the end of that sentence. It was meant in jest, probably because "sir" makes him feel like the old man he is.

Shut up shorty.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

It was meant in jest, probably because "sir" makes him feel like the old man he is.

Ah. Well, age ain't nothin' but a number, anyway. To me, anyone with a Y chromosome, regardless of age, is a sir.

[chseagle]

All floor officials be in grey shirts for V games, stripes in sub-V games.

All table crew must be in some sort of identifying attire.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by chseagle

All floor officials be in grey shirts for V games, stripes in sub-V games.

Some of us do both in the same night.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by chseagle

All floor officials be in grey shirts for V games, stripes in sub-V games.

All table crew must be in some sort of identifying attire.

All shiny-like.

[chseagle]

I've seen it done before.

What I'm meaning it that it should be required that during V games that the grey shirts be worn.

Originally Posted by just another ref

Some of us do both in the same night.

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by chseagle

I've seen it done before.

What I'm meaning it that it should be required that during V games that the grey shirts be worn.

Why, chseagle? What difference does it make what color the shirts are...as long as they are uniform?

Heck, we were in black/white the other night at your school...was that so bad?

...and for the record, many of us have both gray shirts and black/white shirts.

(It makes you communicate with your partners before the game...)

[chseagle]

There's nothing wrong with the stripes, not meaning anything negative about grey vs. stripes.

Concerning the idea of table crew wearing some sort of uniform/identifier, the scorer should be made to wear stripes (not just a recommendation). The rest of the table crew should wear something identifying them as game management staff.

Originally Posted by RookieDude

Why, chseagle? What difference does it make what color the shirts are...as long as they are uniform?

Heck, we were in black/white the other night at your school...was that so bad?

...and for the record, many of us have both gray shirts and black/white shirts.

(It makes you communicate with your partners before the game...)

[chseagle]

Actually when thinking back to some games, the stripes do stand out more when in a loaded gym.

Any idea who it was that decided the grey shirts can be used?

At least it's not as bad as the NBE Shirts with the number on the back or like in hockey with the name & number on the back, or the R(s) wearing the orange bands.

Originally Posted by RookieDude

Why, chseagle? What difference does it make what color the shirts are...as long as they are uniform?

Heck, we were in black/white the other night at your school...was that so bad?

...and for the record, many of us have both gray shirts and black/white shirts.

(It makes you communicate with your partners before the game...)