Rule Change #2

VaCoach · #1 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 31, 2006, 12:31pm

Suggested rule change #2. Team fouls and penalties.
Team will be in bonus situation after the fifth team foul, team will be in double bonus after seventh team foul and after the tenth team foul team will receive 2 foul shots and the ball out of bounds.

Reasoning for rule change: The last 2 mins of most high school basketball games today is spent fouling and shooting foul shots. There is very little or no real basketball being played, no chance to run and offense or no chance to play defense and try to legally still the ball or cause turnovers. The team that is behind simple starts fouling, so the team ahead has to make foul shots to remain in the lead. This causes game to get heated and out of control, intentional fouls are committed against players without the ball, which are seldom called intentional fouls. Making the penalty of 2 shots and the ball will stop this type of play and make teams play basketball the entire game.
I would appreciate your comments on this suggestion. Thank you.

SmokeEater · #2 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 31, 2006, 12:37pm

Sounds like this would possibly slow the game down even more. If your into the bonus and double bonus early then its more time spent with he clock stopped!

Rich · #3 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 31, 2006, 12:42pm

Quote:

Originally posted by VaCoach
Suggested rule change #2. Team fouls and penalties.
Team will be in bonus situation after the fifth team foul, team will be in double bonus after seventh team foul and after the tenth team foul team will receive 2 foul shots and the ball out of bounds.

Reasoning for rule change: The last 2 mins of most high school basketball games today is spent fouling and shooting foul shots. There is very little or no real basketball being played, no chance to run and offense or no chance to play defense and try to legally still the ball or cause turnovers. The team that is behind simple starts fouling, so the team ahead has to make foul shots to remain in the lead. This causes game to get heated and out of control, intentional fouls are committed against players without the ball, which are seldom called intentional fouls. Making the penalty of 2 shots and the ball will stop this type of play and make teams play basketball the entire game.
I would appreciate your comments on this suggestion. Thank you.

Part of basketball is the ability to make free throws. I'm happy with the game (this part of it) the way it is.

Ref Daddy · #4 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 31, 2006, 12:43pm

Comments.

a) games will last much longer.
b) it would NOT IMO avoid the "fouls to catch up" strategy, you gotta do what you gotta do.
c) generally a line up to shoot free throws "cools" things a bit. I don't completly agree that fouling to catch up denegrates the contest into "heated and out of control"

I think NOT having the option to make the team ahead make free throws would turn it into a scrum. What else could they do?

Ref Daddy · #5 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 31, 2006, 12:51pm

Just last night I had a kid (JV) - team down 2 with 1 second - earn two free throws. His team was down two. Had to make both to earn OT.

I will never - EVER - forget the look of fear and panic in his face. I winked at him as I tossed the ball.

The stands were nuts with stomping and pounding. He was home team. He was the smallest kid on the floor, he was the captain of the team that night. He drains the first one. Other team calls Time.

1 shot, 1 second, 1 point down.

He was so distraut his team mates had to help him to their huddle.

Resets after TO and drains the second. Overtime.

I know that young man will tell his grandkids that story in the year 2050.

Keep foul shots in the game.

PS: They lost in OT.

biz · #6 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 31, 2006, 12:52pm

All you have to do to eliminate the fouling to stop the clock is to hit free throws.

If the team who is ahead hits their free throws the lead grows and eventually no one will foul because the game is out of reach. 1-and-1 at 5 would be insane 1:15 games would quickly turn into 1:30 and 1:45 games. You would spend the whole game at the line!!

Snake~eyes · #7 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 31, 2006, 01:51pm

This would just ruin the game, I would never work a girls freshman game ever again...ever. And even now's pushing it.

JCrow · #8 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 31, 2006, 04:03pm

Have any of the other Districts experimented with Microsoft's ScanFoul 2010 System? We are using it this year and it really speeds up the game.

All the League Teams have Beta Test Uniorms supplied by MS. They have Bar Codes and Numbers. We carry Wireless Internet Scanners with buttons for Common Foul, Shooting Foul, 3-Point Shooting Foul, X Foul, etc.

After a foul, you scan the kid's uniform and push the appropriate button for Home or Away. Then the specific Foul gets recorded in the Electronic Scorebook instantly and that female AOL Voice says,

"Blue! 10! Blocking Foul" on the MicroSoft Animated GatesBoard. A Digital Ref even indicates the correct mechanic.

After 5 Fouls, the AOL says,

"Goodbye!"

It's awesome but we are having trouble as the Coaches don't like to wear the MS Blazers with Bar Codes for T's. Some Coaches even run away when you go over to scan them. This is a great system.....you can Ref an average HS Game in 43 minutes.

wwcfoa43 · #9 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 31, 2006, 04:23pm

"Intentional" fouling (i.e. fouling on purpose but trying to play the ball so as not to constitute an intentional foul by rule) in basketball is a fundamental part of the game. It is too easy to delay the game near the end with the score very close. So the game has developed so that the team that trails can actually benefit from going against the rules. This is rare in sports but it is a part of basketball and needs to stay a part of basketball. The alternative would be that once a team gets ahead late in the game, you might as well go home.

There are other methods for dealing with the problems mentioned without having to change the rules.

Ref Daddy · #10 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 31, 2006, 09:46pm

Quote:

Originally posted by JCrow
Have any of the other Districts experimented with Microsoft's ScanFoul 2010 System? We are using it this year and it really speeds up the game.

All the League Teams have Beta Test Uniorms supplied by MS. They have Bar Codes and Numbers. We carry Wireless Internet Scanners with buttons for Common Foul, Shooting Foul, 3-Point Shooting Foul, X Foul, etc.

After a foul, you scan the kid's uniform and push the appropriate button for Home or Away. Then the specific Foul gets recorded in the Electronic Scorebook instantly and that female AOL Voice says,

"Blue! 10! Blocking Foul" on the MicroSoft Animated GatesBoard. A Digital Ref even indicates the correct mechanic.

After 5 Fouls, the AOL says,

"Goodbye!"

It's awesome but we are having trouble as the Coaches don't like to wear the MS Blazers with Bar Codes for T's. Some Coaches even run away when you go over to scan them. This is a great system.....you can Ref an average HS Game in 43 minutes.

Our Association is a non-MicroSoft shop and we therefore use Unix.

Our scoreboard is fed by infared scanners along all out of bounds lines, Shock sensers on the players wrists and a microchip in the basketball.

Was working pretty well until schools with lower budgets were unable to provide fresh batteries for the players.

Rick Durkee · #11 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 31, 2006, 10:00pm

Interesting regional differences. Schools around here have invested in technology to detect players going out of bounds for unauthorized reasons and to alert officials to players who might have a shirt that is not properly tucked in. Games in the area have dramatically improved in quality, as a result.

dave30 · #12 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 31, 2006, 10:04pm

I would be in favor of following a rule similar to the NBA. Starting with the fifth foul PER QUARTER, teams would shoot two free throws, no more one and one. Each quarter would start over as far as the bonus situation and fouls to get back in the game would not be such a huge advantage if the player gets TWO shots instead of one and one.

Stat-Man · #13 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 01, 2006, 12:04am

Quote:

Originally posted by VaCoach
Suggested rule change #2. Team fouls and penalties.
Team will be in bonus situation after the fifth team foul, team will be in double bonus after seventh team foul and after the tenth team foul team will receive 2 foul shots and the ball out of bounds.

I didn't like this rule in HS when I was rwoing up. Most freshman and JV games we played invariably had a team shooting the 1 and 1 in the first quarter.

Personally, I'd like to see a rule that a team down by 20 in the final minute that fouls to stop the clock can choose either (1) an intentional foul, or (2) two points for the opponent and change of possession. Had one game last year where a team was down 20 and still fouling with under a minute to go. Seriously wondered waht this coach was trying to prove. :P

johnny1784 · #14 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 01, 2006, 02:05am

Quote:

Originally posted by biz
All you have to do to eliminate the fouling to stop the clock is to hit free throws.

If the team who is ahead hits their free throws the lead grows and eventually no one will foul because the game is out of reach. 1-and-1 at 5 would be insane 1:15 games would quickly turn into 1:30 and 1:45 games. You would spend the whole game at the line!!

I disagree with this assessment "All you have to do to eliminate the fouling to stop the clock is to hit free throws", especially when it is done deliberately.

The team who is behind towards the end of a game will attempt to foul no matter what the point differential is.

I agree slightly with a change by having the double bonus resulting in 2 shots and possession.

Shouldn't the officials begin having the guts to call the intentional foul?

johnny1784 · #15 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 01, 2006, 02:09am

Quote:

Originally posted by dave30
I would be in favor of following a rule similar to the NBA. Starting with the fifth foul PER QUARTER, teams would shoot two free throws, no more one and one. Each quarter would start over as far as the bonus situation and fouls to get back in the game would not be such a huge advantage if the player gets TWO shots instead of one and one.

I agree to eliminate the bonus (one and one) and only keep the double-bonus.