If I could change one rule, it would be....

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Regarding intentional fouls -- I see no reason to be a pioneer. I call them when the game and the NFHS expects them to be called.

Great discussion folks, really enjoying this one.

Rich, I called one last year in a middle school game when a team was fouling late in the game. The player grabbed his opponent and bear hugged him big time. Easy intentional in my view but boy did the fouling team's coach come unglued on that one. Expected I suppose but my partner also told me in no uncertain terms that was a bad call.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Great discussion folks, really enjoying this one.

Rich, I called one last year in a middle school game when a team was fouling late in the game. The player grabbed his opponent and bear hugged him big time. Easy intentional in my view but boy did the fouling team's coach come unglued on that one. Expected I suppose but my partner also told me in no uncertain terms that was a bad call.

You really have to take middle school coaches and partners with a grain of salt.

The best part of working varsity ball is that you rarely see that level of stupidity from players and when you do, the coach will usually be on the player, not you.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

You really have to take middle school coaches and partners with a grain of salt.

The best part of working varsity ball is that you rarely see that level of stupidity from players and when you do, the coach will usually be on the player, not you.

I certainly hear you on that one. Most of the JV and even Sophomore games I've worked have been worlds better than the Jr High and Freshman games, in terms of both the quality of the partners and the coaches. No big surprise there, I realize.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Expected I suppose but my partner also told me in no uncertain terms that was a bad call.

Originally Posted by RichMSN

You really have to take middle school coaches and partners with a grain of salt.

And SOME middle school partners.

[chseagle]

All floor officials be in grey shirts for V games, stripes in sub-V games.

All table crew must be in some sort of identifying attire.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by chseagle

All floor officials be in grey shirts for V games, stripes in sub-V games.

Some of us do both in the same night.

[chseagle]

I've seen it done before.

What I'm meaning it that it should be required that during V games that the grey shirts be worn.

Originally Posted by just another ref

Some of us do both in the same night.

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by chseagle

I've seen it done before.

What I'm meaning it that it should be required that during V games that the grey shirts be worn.

Why, chseagle? What difference does it make what color the shirts are...as long as they are uniform?

Heck, we were in black/white the other night at your school...was that so bad?

...and for the record, many of us have both gray shirts and black/white shirts.

(It makes you communicate with your partners before the game...)

[chseagle]

There's nothing wrong with the stripes, not meaning anything negative about grey vs. stripes.

Concerning the idea of table crew wearing some sort of uniform/identifier, the scorer should be made to wear stripes (not just a recommendation). The rest of the table crew should wear something identifying them as game management staff.

Originally Posted by RookieDude

Why, chseagle? What difference does it make what color the shirts are...as long as they are uniform?

Heck, we were in black/white the other night at your school...was that so bad?

...and for the record, many of us have both gray shirts and black/white shirts.

(It makes you communicate with your partners before the game...)

[chseagle]

Actually when thinking back to some games, the stripes do stand out more when in a loaded gym.

Any idea who it was that decided the grey shirts can be used?

At least it's not as bad as the NBE Shirts with the number on the back or like in hockey with the name & number on the back, or the R(s) wearing the orange bands.

Originally Posted by RookieDude

Why, chseagle? What difference does it make what color the shirts are...as long as they are uniform?

Heck, we were in black/white the other night at your school...was that so bad?

...and for the record, many of us have both gray shirts and black/white shirts.

(It makes you communicate with your partners before the game...)

[Adam]

Originally Posted by chseagle

All floor officials be in grey shirts for V games, stripes in sub-V games.

All table crew must be in some sort of identifying attire.

All shiny-like.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by chseagle

All floor officials be in grey shirts for V games, stripes in sub-V .

That's how we do it in one of the chapters I belong to. I have no idea why either but I suspect we are transitioning to all grey for every level.

[chseagle]

Welpe it was meant as a joke as a way to distinguish who's a veteran official & who's a 1st/2nd year official (rookie).

Originally Posted by Welpe

That's how we do it in one of the chapters I belong to. I have no idea why either but I suspect we are transitioning to all grey for every level.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Welpe it was meant as a joke as a way to distinguish who's a veteran official & who's a 1st/2nd year official (rookie).

And no one got the joke because it's not just 1st/2nd year officials doing JV games.

[Eastshire]

I know I'm late to the party, but I wanted to throw my 2 cents in on late-game fouling.

The one major thing missed in the discussion is that for one year the Fed did change its mind about the strategy. We had the PoE in the early '00s that included the famous any foul after the coach says "Foul 'em" is intentional line. That experiment lasted one year and the PoEs given earlier returned things to their normal state.

Personally, I find the fouling strategy at best poorly conceived and at worst unsportsmanlike. But, fortunately, no one gave me the job of making the rules. What I don't understand is why they don't try to steal the ball instead of just fouling.

My personal approach when the defense is attempting to foul late in the game is to call any contact when the offense is not trying to avoid it. When the offense is trying to avoid being fouled, it has to actually be a foul, i.e. the offensive player must be put at a disadvantage.

I think Rich is right that borderline contact should be favored for a foul in this situation for player safety, but at the same time we must be careful not to but the offensive team at a disadvantage by calling fouls that aren't there.

And yes, the defensive team is getting an advantage by fouling or they wouldn't be doing it in the first place.

My preferred solution is a change in the rules that would make the strategy less likely to work for the defense. Something is wrong with the rules when the best chance to win is to intentionally break the rules. I think the idea of a triple bonus floated earlier has some merit.