Roll over = travel

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I consider stable positions to be back, stomach, right side, and left side. If they're in between, the get to settle to one of the stable positions. But once they settle, I do not permit them to change. That doesn't mean they can't rock around as they continue to "play", but they can't change to a "new" position.

I consider back and stomach to be the stable positions. Afaik the intent and purpose of the rule is that it's a violation to roll over from one position to the other while holding the ball. That's rolling over. I've never seen or heard of an interpretation anywhere that said it's illegal to roll side to side while you're holding the ball on either your back or stomach.

Sounds like the only way to really settle this one is to get a FED clarification on it.

[BillyMac]

Don't make me whip out my protractor.

[mbyron]

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by mbyron

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

I've never seen or heard of an interpretation anywhere that said it's illegal to roll side to side while you're holding the ball on either your back or stomach.

I've never seen or heard of an interpretation anywhere that said it's LEGAL to roll side to side while you're holding the ball on either your back or stomach.

4.44.5 SITUATION B: A1 dives for a loose ball and slides after gaining control. A1 is in a position either on his/her back or stomach. What can A1 do without violating?

RULING: A1 may pass, shoot, start a dribble or call a time-out. Once A1 has the ball and is no longer sliding, he/she may not roll over. If flat on his/her back, A1 may sit up without violating. Any attempt to get to the feet is traveling unless A1 is dribbling. It is also traveling if A1 puts the ball on the floor, then rises and is first to touch the ball.

What can A1 not do?
He/she may not roll over.

What can A1 do?
If flat on his/her back, A1 may sit up.

So the case play tells us that the ONLY thing A1 can do while holding the ball in this position is to sit up if he/she is on her back.

There's nothing that says A1 can roll over on his/her side if A1 is on his/her back or stomach.

Traveling.
Jurassic siding with NevadaRef.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

1) 4.44.5 SITUATION B: A1 dives for a loose ball and slides after gaining control. A1 is in a position either on his/her back or stomach. What can A1 do without violating?

Once A1 has the ball and is no longer sliding, he/she may not roll over.

What can A1 not do?
He/she may not roll over.


2) There's nothing that says A1 can roll over on his/her side if A1 is on his/her back or stomach.

1) Yup, I agree that the player can't roll over without traveling. I'm already on record as saying that.

2) There's nothing there either that says A1 can't roll onto their side. Rolling onto their side isn't rolling over imo. If you roll over from your back, you end up on your stomach. Conversely, if you roll over from your stomach, you end up on your back. You're adding something that is not definitively laid out in the case play.

Here endeth the lesson.

We disagree. And until the FED gives us a clarification, I guess we'll still be disagreeing.

And for the record, I agree with Nevada most of the time. I think he's a very knowledgable official. It's only when he gets carried away with some of his strict law'n'order stuff that I really have to disagree with him. Vehemently. But that's also only my opinion. Hell, fwiw Jeff Rutledge and I have been fighting over some things for 10 years now and if I'm lucky we'll spend another 10 years fighting over 'em, but I still very much agree with and respect the great majority of his answers. Don't tell him that though. Takes all the fun out of arguing.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

We disagree. And until the FED gives us a clarification, I guess we'll still be disagreeing.

4.44.5 SITUATION B:
What can A1 do without violating?

RULING:
A1 may pass, shoot, start a dribble or call a time-out.
If flat on his/her back, A1 may sit up without violating.

Those are the FED's words, not mine. I don't know how it could be any clearer. Those are the only two things the case play says A1 can do.

Oh well...nothing to get bent out of shape over. Merry Christmas Woddy!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Oh well...nothing to get bent out of shape over. Merry Christmas Woddy!

It's takes a helluva lot more than that to get me bent out of shape, Tony.

Have a great Christmas! You gonna spatchcock your turkey?

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Have a great Christmas! You gonna spatchcock your turkey?

Hey! That's illegal in most states!!

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Hey! That's illegal in most states!!

49 of them, in fact. New Jersey is the lone exception.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Hey! That's illegal in most states!!

Rules citation?

Hey, Martha Stewart does it all the time. And she never went to the Big House for that. Other things? Well, yeah....but it doesn't make her a bad person. And she did knit new handcuffs for all the screws while she was there.

It's the only way to go imo. I do it all the time. Out in public too- right on my bbq for anyone to see.

How to Spatchcock a Turkey - Martha Stewart Recipes

Cooking is my life!

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Have a great Christmas! You gonna spatchcock your turkey?

If that's anything like frying one, YES.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

If that's anything like frying one, YES.

I'm not sure whether spatchcocking a turkey before frying would make any difference. Spatchcocking is just taking out the turkey's backbone and flattening the bird before cooking. It cuts the cooking time by about 2/3 for roasting or BBQing. We tried it for the first time last Christmas and were amazed at how quickly the bird cooked. My wife roasts the bigger ones (over 20 lbs.) in the oven and I like to BBQ smaller turkeys every now and then. Never really tried to fry one but I can't see how spatchcocking would help in that case. Do you use a turkey fryer or just a large stock pot?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Jurassic siding with NevadaRef.

Well, tomorrow is the first Winter Solstice Full Moon Eclipse in at least 370 years (450 according to some sources.)

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Well, tomorrow is the first Winter Solstice Full Moon Eclipse in at least 370 years (450 according to some sources.)

Will that be the 2nd one witnessed by MTD Sr?