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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 28, 2005, 04:13pm
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I asked this about a year ago, and got various answers, but the MSU / UK game sparked my interest again.

This comes from a coaching perspective, but I want to teach it correctly, but still confused.

An MSU player set a screen for the ball handler. UK switched. the MSU screener then rolled, keeping defender pinned and backed him down into the lane and posted up creating a little trying to guard a big.

From my understanding of the post last year, this should have been a foul for displacing the defender. I understand not everything gets called, but I just don't see players being called for pinning or posting up players after setting a pick and roll when the defenders switch.

The reason I noticed this was the screen was set at the top of the key and pinning / backing in motion took the defender all the way down to the block.


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Old Mon Mar 28, 2005, 04:17pm
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If the defender is trying to play through the screen and continue to guard his opponent, it's a foul on the screener.
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Old Mon Mar 28, 2005, 04:22pm
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The defenders had switched, the defender was trying to regain fronting position on the player pinning and posting him up, but was being backed down by the off player rear end.
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Old Mon Mar 28, 2005, 06:36pm
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If I understand correctly, you coach 7th and 8th grade. The game you get from refs is going to be much, much different from what's seen on TV in the NCAA. While the rules are written in similar language, they are interpreted much differently, and advantage/disadvantage is applied much differently. Furthermore, at your levels refs don't always see what they need to see. Consequently, the game you get will be different from the game Tubby Smith gets.

I suggest you talk to the assignor in your area, or a head ref or commissioner in a local association and find out what their interps are and how your local refs are being taught to call these kinds of plays. It's the best way to know how to teach your players to do their best.

If they learn to play within the rules they are given now, and if they have solid fundamentals and good conditioning, adjusting to different interps in high school and college will be an easy and successful task when the time comes.

You help the game tremendously when you approach the rules from this angle. It's great for us to come to a game where the coach wants his kids to fit into the rules at hand, and the players are encouraged to take responsibility for their own actions. Thanks for a great attitude!
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Old Tue Mar 29, 2005, 02:44pm
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Coach, I'm trying to visualize what you're describing. If the D is trying to get around the post player who is moving to the block, you probably don't have a foul just because the post player won't stop to let him past. I'm thinking the D would have a better chance to get around from the top side. Yes, he will be vulnerable to giving up a pass to the post right where he wants it "on the block". That's pretty much why the pick and roll is still one of the best plays on the court.

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Old Tue Mar 29, 2005, 07:05pm
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What you are describing is a foul.

I want to piggyback on what Rainmaker was saying.

Why do coaches make the game so complicated for young kids? It is one of the most ridiculous things. Here is what you can do:

1. Teach defense. Man-you-ball, arms out, feet moving, call for help when beat. Make the other team beat you from the outside. Challenge the ball and everyone else has at least one foot in the paint.
2. Teach ONE motion offense
3. Work on making deliberate/good passes and control the ball.
4. Shoot free-throw well
5. Shoot lay-ups well
6. You WILL win most of the time

I will add one more thing, teach the point guard to be a vocal leader on the floor and teach the PG how to push the ball. They can have so much fun when pushing the ball the right way.
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Old Wed Mar 30, 2005, 12:43pm
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How is teaching a proper pick and roll "too complicated" and "riduculus". Not teaching it is ridiculus.

I didn't ask about zone defense or how to full court trap without fouling, I asked about proper motion of a pick and roll.

If you think that is too complicated, you need to come to one of my practices and just see how "basic" I am. I love fundamentals. We spend 20 minutes a day just on lay-ups. I devote 20 minutes a day to team offense, the rest is spent working on "skills".

I don't know if you comments were directed at me, but I think you are making an assumption about something you don't fully understand. Kind of like how you guys get mad at coachs making assumptions without knowing the rules, your assumption makes me mad because you don't know what is going on in my practices.
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Old Wed Mar 30, 2005, 06:39pm
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Huh???

Quote:
Originally posted by tomegun
What you are describing is a foul.
I believe that would be an appropriate response to the question raised.

Quote:
Originally posted by tomegun
Why do coaches make the game so complicated for young kids? It is one of the most ridiculous things. Here is what you can do: ...
C'mon now. That's a rush to judgement that comes across as rather harsh and arrogant.

If basketball were so simple to teach, then it follows that the game would be equally simple to officiate. Yet this board alone has almost 130,000 posts in almost 10,000 threads. Even after factoring out inflation arising from the off-topic fight between Red Sox and Yankee fans, there seems to be a hell of a lot of discussion among officials regarding their interpretation of those 10 "simple" rules of the game.

[Edited by PGCougar on Mar 30th, 2005 at 07:04 PM]
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