Inadvertent Kick on Throw In

[LeeBallanfant]

NCAA rules:
A1 handed ball for throw in, bounces ball to set up a play. Ball inadvertently goes off his foot and into the court in play.
Would this be:
A) Violation for failure to throw ball directly into court
B) Treated as a fumble and returned to A1 for another throwin
C) Legal

[BktBallRef]

As long as it goes off his foot and next hits inbounds, it's nothing.

[Nevadaref]

I suspect this is the ruling that you are most likely to see applied to the situation which you pose:

Throw-in
A.R. 178. A1, on a throw-in from a designated spot, fumbles. A1 leaves
the designated spot to retrieve the fumble. Is this a violation?
RULING: No. Since there was a fumble, the official shall blow his/
her whistle, which causes the ball to become dead, and then shall readminister
the throw-in.
(Rule 4-31.1 and 7-6.5)

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

As long as it goes off his foot and next hits inbounds, it's nothing.

Imo I think you have to judge whether it was a throw-in pass or a fumble. Both the NFHS and NCAA use similar language for a legal throw-in. They both say that the thrower has to release the ball on a pass directly into the court. If you judged that the thrower intended to kick the ball into the court, I'd agree it was nothing. If you instead judged that the the thrower inadvertantly kicked the ball, I'd go with Nevada's ruling.

But that's just me.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Imo I think you have to judge whether it was a throw-in pass or a fumble. Both the NFHS and NCAA use similar language for a legal throw-in. They both say that the thrower has to release the ball on a pass directly into the court. If you judged that the thrower intended to kick the ball into the court, I'd agree it was nothing. If you instead judged that the the thrower inadvertantly kicked the ball, I'd go with Nevada's ruling.

But that's just me.

Now I'm just axin', but wouldn't this qualify as a kicked ball? 9-4?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by LeeBallanfant

NCAA rules:
A1 handed ball for throw in, bounces ball to set up a play. Ball inadvertently goes off his foot and into the court in play.
Would this be:
A) Violation for failure to throw ball directly into court
B) Treated as a fumble and returned to A1 for another throwin
C) Legal

In the specific play you ask (the ball never touches the floor OOB), then the play is legal (at least so far). It's the same as if the ball is "fumbled" and lands inbounds -- that's the throw-in and play on and a vioaltion if A1 is the first to touch the ball.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Now I'm just axin', but wouldn't this qualify as a kicked ball? 9-4?

Nope, you consider it the same as the thrower dribbling the ball OOB. Would you call an illegal second dribble on a thrower if they dribbled the ball, caught it and dribbled it again?

Case book play 9.2.2SitD

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Nope, you consider it the same as the thrower dribbling the ball OOB. Would you call an illegal second dribble on a thrower if they dribbled the ball, caught it and dribbled it again?

Case book play 9.2.2SitD

Apples and stereos.

Of course I wouldn't call an illegal dribble. Fundamental #5, dribbling or traveling rules do not apply during a throw-in, jump ball, or free throw.

It says nothing of kicked ball rules, and your post mentioned the player intentionally kicking the ball in as his throw-in pass.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Apples and stereos.

Of course I wouldn't call an illegal dribble. Fundamental #5, dribbling or traveling rules do not apply during a throw-in, jump ball, or free throw.

It says nothing of kicked ball rules, and your post mentioned the player intentionally kicking the ball in as his throw-in pass.

I agree with Snaqwells, if what Jurassic said is what he meant.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I agree with Snaqwells, if what Jurassic said is what he meant.

Still trying to redeem myself after that serious brain fart yesterday.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Apples and stereos.

Of course I wouldn't call an illegal dribble. Fundamental #5, dribbling or traveling rules do not apply during a throw-in, jump ball, or free throw.

It says nothing of kicked ball rules, and your post mentioned the player intentionally kicking the ball in as his throw-in pass.

Throw-in violations are listed under 9-2. See kicking the ball by the thrower in there anywhere?

It's a matter of intent imo, and that's why I made that statement. Did the thrower intend to throw-in the ball via kicking it to a team mate in-bounds? if so, I don't think that's a violation under either NFHS or NCAA rules.

Or was the kick inadvertant, and this should be treated as a fumble as in case book play 9.2.1SitB(a) where the ball is fumbled forward?

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Did the thrower intend to throw-in the ball via kicking it to a team mate in-bounds? if so, I don't think that's a violation under either NFHS or NCAA rules.

WHAT??? Intentionally kicking the ball is NOT a violation???

Is the thrower-in a player? Yes. Did that player intentionally kick the ball? Yes. That's a violation. Not a throw-in violation under 9-2, perhaps; but definitely a kicking violation under 9-4.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I agree with Snaqwells, if what Jurassic said is what he meant.

What's your opinion of case book play of 9.2.2SitB(a) then where we're directed to re-set if the ball is fumbled forward? It doesn't say how much forward or how far forward or whether the ball went forwards in-bounds or not, just that we should re-set. Would you treat an inadvertently kicked ball differently? I wouldn't. And if you would, I'd appreciate a cite.

NFHS rules. Not sure if it's definitively covered under NCAA rules.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

WHAT??? Intentionally kicking the ball is NOT a violation???

Is the thrower-in a player? Yes. Did that player intentionally kick the ball? Yes. That's a violation. Not a throw-in violation under 9-2, perhaps; but definitely a kicking violation under 9-4.

If dribbling and traveling rules don't apply OOB, what makes you think that deliberately kicking the ball should? Especially when none of those violations are listed as throw-in violations under 9-2? Would you call a thrower for fisting the ball to a teammate in-bounds too?

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

If dribbling and traveling rules don't apply OOB, what makes you think that deliberately kicking the ball should?

The only reason the dribbling and traveling rules don't apply is that there's a NOTE that specifically tells us they don't apply. Have you found such a note that refers to kicking violations?

Would you call a thrower for fisting the ball to a teammate in-bounds too?

I personally would only call it if the throw-in was closely contested and there was a possibility that the fist might connect with an opponent. But I believe that by rule, it would be a violation.