Kick Ball on AP Throw-in

[rpirtle]

I know this was discussed here back in December but I have been unable to find the thread. So here goes...

Team A is awarded a throw-in using the AP procedure. During the throw-in, Player A1 legally throws a bounce pass in-bounds. The ball is kicked by Player B2 in an effort to block the throw-in. The covering official blows their whistle and calls the violation on Team B for kicking.

In the above situation, would the AP arrow switch to Team B after the next throw-in is completed? Or, is the subsequent throw-in not an AP arrow throw-in due to the kicking violation by Team B? Thanks again, everyone.

[williebfree]

R 6-3-5
The opportunity to make an alternating-possession throw-in is lost if the throw-in team violates. If either team fouls during an alternating-possession throw-in, it does not cause the throw-in team to lose the possesion arrow.

Call the violation and administer the "replacement" throw-in. AP switches after the throw-in is completed (or if throw-in team violates).

[BktBallRef]

The AP throw-in ends and the arrow is changed when B touches the ball, with a kick in this case.

A then gets the ball for a throw-in because of the kick. The AP thropw-in has ended.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
The AP throw-in ends and the arrow is changed when B touches the ball, with a kick in this case.

A then gets the ball for a throw-in because of the kick. The AP thropw-in has ended.

Tony -- been out in the snow too long? I'm almost certain this is wrong. Arrow doesn't switch when defense violates. Does it?

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by rainmaker

Tony -- been out in the snow too long? I'm almost certain this is wrong. Arrow doesn't switch when defense violates. Does it?

You're thinking of the exception that would allow A to still run the baseline -- and that obviouls doesn't happen on a held ball.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by bob jenkins
You're thinking of the exception that would allow A to still run the baseline -- and that obviouls doesn't happen on a held ball.

B1 scores a successful try. A1 takes the ball OOB for a throw-in. A1 inadvertantly holds the ball across the OOB plane so that B1 is able to hold the ball on the inbounds side of the plane. Neither player is able to secure sole control without undue force. The arrow points toward Team A's basket.

Will A1 be allowed to run the endline in this case? The original throw-in did not end. . .

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by bob jenkins

You're thinking of the exception that would allow A to still run the baseline -- and that obviouls doesn't happen on a held ball.

No, that's not what I'm thinking of. But now that I plow through the books, I can't find what I WAS thinking about. I'm still pretty sure I'm right, but it happens so seldom that I never feel 100% sure. I"ll have to get back to you later, after I remember where that little quote was that's floating around in my mind.

[rainmaker]

Okay, well, I guess my memory was flawed. I can't find what I thought was there. I will now reverse the arrow even when the defense violates on the in-bounds pass.

But this brings up another question -- why is this fair?!? Defense violates and they get rewarded with the arrow!?!?

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by rainmaker

Tony -- been out in the snow too long? I'm almost certain this is wrong. Arrow doesn't switch when defense violates. Does it?

I don't have any snow. You do. Therefore....

The AP throw in ends when B kicks the ball.

The arrow is changed when the throw-in ends.

Now, A gets the ball because B kicked it.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by rainmaker
Okay, well, I guess my memory was flawed. I can't find what I thought was there. I will now reverse the arrow even when the defense violates on the in-bounds pass.

But this brings up another question -- why is this fair?!? Defense violates and they get rewarded with the arrow!?!?

The throw-in is made.

They just simply touched the ball first, which ended the throw-in.

There going to get the arrow anyway, unless a foul occurs before the throw-in ends.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

The throw-in is made.

They just simply touched the ball first, which ended the throw-in.

There going to get the arrow anyway, unless a foul occurs before the throw-in ends.

So B should be trying hard to kick it, instead of trying to avoid the violation. Seems kinda backwards...

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by rainmaker
So B should be trying hard to kick it, instead of trying to avoid the violation. Seems kinda backwards...

What's the purpose of avoidng the violation?

If the defender can deflect the pass, by any means, it's good defense.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

What's the purpose of avoidng the violation?

If the defender can deflect the pass, by any means, it's good defense.

RIght, that's my point. Normally, violations should be avoided, since they bring a penalty, but in this case, there's no penalty, it's good strategy. Why is that reasonable?

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by rainmaker

RIght, that's my point. Normally, violations should be avoided, since they bring a penalty, but in this case, there's no penalty, it's good strategy. Why is that reasonable?

Unless there's a shot clock there's no penalty for kicking at any point, unless you count stopping the clock as a penalty. No?

[DownTownTonyBrown]

So Juulie,

you would want Team A to keep the AP arrow and keep the current throw-in opportunity due to the kick? That wouldn't be reasonable would it?

The only time the AP arrow should be kept is when there is a foul committed during the throw-in, before the the throw-in is completed. Penalize the foul and the AP stays because the throw-in was never completed.