end of UConn-Baylor: shot-clock violation?

[pizanno]

Great game tonight. End of the game had an interesting situation from both an officiating and coaching perspective.

Baylor Lady Bears vs. Connecticut Huskies - Recap - November 16, 2010 - ESPN
(go to the 1:30 mark)

Despite the Barb Jacobs quote, I replayed the last UConn shot a few times on my DVR and clearly there was no Baylor possession when the shot clock horn sounds. Not clear on the above linked video, but the shot clock sounds as the rebound hits the Baylor player's one hand, then bounces once before she secures and advances the ball.

Officiating thought: I think I would call this violation. Whenever it's this close (and IMO this was) I err on the side of the violation. Although at the end of a high-level game like this, I'm wondering if this is a case of "letting the players decide the game".

Coaching thought: Baylor could have told players to NOT catch an airball, allowing the clock to stop on the violation and giving them a chance to set something up with 5-6 seconds remaining. They were out of timeouts.

Thoughts?

[Scrapper1]

Clearly a violation. They missed it. Oh well.

[Judtech]

Disagree 100%. The Baylor player clearly had the ball prior to the horn sounding, thus no shot clock violation. After she had possession of the rebound she bobbled/hesitated but that has no effect on a shot clock.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Judtech

Disagree 100%. The Baylor player clearly had the ball prior to the horn sounding, thus no shot clock violation. After she had possession of the rebound she bobbled/hesitated but that has no effect on a shot clock.

She touched the ball, but never possessed it. Remember that control is HOLDING or DRIBBLING the ball. She did not clearly control the ball until after it bounced, clearly after the horn, IMHO.

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

She touched the ball, but never possessed it. Remember that control is HOLDING or DRIBBLING the ball. She did not clearly control the ball until after it bounced, clearly after the horn, IMHO.

She had two hands on the ball as the horn sounds. Even makes a move to keep the ball from the defender. I cant see the ball hit the ground from the ESPN view, it looks more like she MAY have lost control of the ball as she was swinging it away from the defender. Even if it did hit the floor, it was after she had the rebound secured.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Judtech

She had two hands on the ball as the horn sounds. Even makes a move to keep the ball from the defender.

Wow, I saw the replay twice and that's not what I saw at all. I'm going to search for a clip online now. If you're right, I'll have to adjust my comments, but I didn't see it that way at all.

[Scrapper1]

I could only find one clip with a quick search and it's the clip I saw on SportsCenter. I could not tell if the ball hit the floor before she controlled it, I have to admit. But I still don't think she controlled it cleanly before the clock was at zero.

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I could only find one clip with a quick search and it's the clip I saw on SportsCenter. I could not tell if the ball hit the floor before she controlled it, I have to admit. But I still don't think she controlled it cleanly before the clock was at zero.

Listen for the horn and the movement of her hands. She is moving the ball away from the UConn defender as the horn sounds.

[pizanno]

Originally Posted by Judtech

Listen for the horn and the movement of her hands. She is moving the ball away from the UConn defender as the horn sounds.

How do you listen for movement of her hands?

Movement of hands does not mean possession.

Let me ask my original question another way. A1 shoots and releases, shot clock horn sounds during try, ball does not hit rim. when do you blow whistle for shot clock violation?

I believe anything other than a clean, uncontested rebound/possession by Team B merits a whistle. This includes:

* touch by B2
* touch by A2
* ball hits floor untouched

[Judtech]

How is this: Listen for the horn and WATCH the movement of her hands? Hopefully that clears it up for you. The rebound falls into her hands, she then proceedes to attempt to clear the ball away from the UConn defender. It is very difficult if not impossible to jerk the ball away from a defender if you do not have control.
The play you describe is not the play that happened. The Baylor player had control of the ball when the horn sounded. In your play the ball is still in the air when the horn sounds.

[pizanno]

Jud-
So in your opinion, if UConn player takes the ball from the Baylor girl during her "securing", you would say legal and game over?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by pizanno

Let me ask my original question another way. A1 shoots and releases, shot clock horn sounds during try, ball does not hit rim. when do you blow whistle for shot clock violation?

I believe anything other than a clean, uncontested rebound/possession by Team B merits a whistle. This includes:

* touch by B2
* touch by A2
* ball hits floor untouched

You're wrong. If the horn sounds during the try, then it's a violation as soon as the try ends (in this example, likely to be when it's evident that the try will not be successful). Even if B gets the "rebound" it's a vioaltion (the vioaltion happens before that).

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by pizanno

Jud-
So in your opinion, if UConn player takes the ball from the Baylor girl during her "securing", you would say legal and game over?

The key is the difference between "Securing" and "Secured"

[AHSAA_Ref]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

You're wrong. If the horn sounds during the try, then it's a violation as soon as the try ends (in this example, likely to be when it's evident that the try will not be successful). Even if B gets the "rebound" it's a vioaltion (the vioaltion happens before that).

I apologize for being disagreeing in my first post ever, but please explain.

If the horn sounds while the ball is in the air and the defensive team grabs the rebound, why is it a shot clock violation?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by AHSAA_Ref

I apologize for being disagreeing in my first post ever, but please explain.

If the horn sounds while the ball is in the air and the defensive team grabs the rebound, why is it a shot clock violation?

Because the violation happens before the change in team control (which resets the clock).

See AR 225 (2)