The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 02, 2010, 02:27am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Somewhere on the earth
Posts: 1,601
Question Bench Technical or not

Rule 10-4-4 states:
"Stand at the team bench while the clock is running or is stopped, & must remain seated, except:
a. The head coach as in 10-5-1.
b. When a team member is reporting to the scorer's table.
c. During a charged time-out, as in 5-12-5, or the intermission between quarters and extra periods.
d. To spontaneously react to an outstanding play by a team member or to acknowledge a replaced player(s), but must immediately return to his/her seat.
PENALTY: (Arts. 1, 2, 3, 4) Two free throws plus ball for division-line throw-in. If the head coach is the offender, the foul is charged directly to him/her. The foul is charged to the offender (if not the head coach) and also charged indirectly to the head coach. (Art. 1g) Flagrant foul, the offender is disqualified. If the offender is bench personnel, each foul is also charged indirectly to the head coach."

As this rule is stated, should there be a technical foul assessed for the assistant coach to leave the bench, & go behind the scorers' table to look at the scorebook to check on player fouls or quarters played during the middle of the game, during time-outs, or between quarters/halves??

As I am reading & understanding the rule, the assistant coach is only supposed to be behind the scorers' table as the team is coming out for warm-ups or to start the 2nd half.

Am I interpreting this right?

If I am reading/interpreting the rule right, what can the official scorer &/or timer do (if anything) to cease this activity?
__________________
"Ask not what your teammates can do for you. Ask what you can do for your teammates"--Earvin "Magic" Johnson

Last edited by chseagle; Tue Nov 02, 2010 at 03:36am.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 02, 2010, 02:44am
We don't rent pigs
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,627
Quote:
Originally Posted by chseagle View Post
If I am reading/interpreting the rule right, what can the official scorer &/or timer do (if anything) to cease this activity?
Save your allowance and get that taser.
__________________
I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum.
It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow.


Lonesome Dove
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 02, 2010, 03:06am
I got a Basketball Jones!
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Hunger
Posts: 917
Quote:
Originally Posted by chseagle View Post
If I am reading/interpreting the rule right, what can the official scorer &/or timer do (if anything) to cease this activity?
Did you miss the memo??; apply your taser to the offending individual, as per rule 2-11&12, specially amended for WIAA to accomodate officiating wannabes.
In the real world, gay kocken offen yom...
__________________
Lah me..
(In honor of Jurassic Ref, R.I.P.)
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 02, 2010, 03:28am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 11,896
Quote:
Originally Posted by chseagle View Post
Am I interpreting this right?

If I am reading/interpreting the rule right, what can the official scorer &/or timer do (if anything) to cease this activity?
Almost. The AC, is not restricted to the bench during intermissions/timeouts.

As for what you can do...obscure whatever they are trying to look at and ignore them.

You "might" wish to inform the officials that he AC is interfering with your ability to do your job by being at the table and distracting you during play. More than likely (and probably the recommended approach for the first occurrence), the officials will simply tell the AC to stay in his seat and not go to the table.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com

Last edited by Camron Rust; Tue Nov 02, 2010 at 03:31am.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 02, 2010, 03:51am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Somewhere on the earth
Posts: 1,601
Page 89 of the 2009-2010 Case Book:

"10.5.1 SITUATION C: The coach of Team A leaves the bench area and goes to the table to seek information other than a correctable error: (a) during a time-out; or (b) during the intermission between the first and second quarters. RULING: A technical foul is charged directly to the coach in both (a) and (b). If this information is required, it must be secured by a manager or statistician, etc., when the clock is stopped and the ball is dead. A coach is not permitted at the table for this purpose. To allow exceptions would open the door for exploitation and would result in situations which could not be enforced consistently."

Above is a reason why I am asking, especially with the wording saying a manager or statistician are the only ones that can approach the table. Since it also states at the end "A coach is not permitted at the table for this purpose.", would that also include assistant coaches as they are also coaches & not managers or statisticians?

Another reason why I am asking is cause of seeing it happen before & interfering with the table crew's duties.
__________________
"Ask not what your teammates can do for you. Ask what you can do for your teammates"--Earvin "Magic" Johnson
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 02, 2010, 03:56am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Somewhere on the earth
Posts: 1,601
Where in the rule book or case book does it say that the AC can approach the table?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
Almost. The AC, is not restricted to the bench during intermissions/timeouts.
__________________
"Ask not what your teammates can do for you. Ask what you can do for your teammates"--Earvin "Magic" Johnson
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 02, 2010, 04:14am
9/11 - Never Forget
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 5,643
Send a message via Yahoo to grunewar
Quote:
Originally Posted by justacoach View Post
In the real world, gay kocken offen yom...
Nice!
__________________
There was the person who sent ten puns to friends, with the hope that at least one of the puns would make them laugh. No pun in ten did.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 02, 2010, 04:43am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Somewhere on the earth
Posts: 1,601
Sorry but I will not, as you say, "get lost", I am asking a valid question and have mentioned the rule pertaining to what I am asking as well as a case book scenario.

As I stated in another thread, because a taser is considered a weapon, I cannot carry one on school grounds

Quote:
Originally Posted by justacoach View Post
Did you miss the memo??; apply your taser to the offending individual, as per rule 2-11&12, specially amended for WIAA to accomodate officiating wannabes.
In the real world, gay kocken offen yom...
__________________
"Ask not what your teammates can do for you. Ask what you can do for your teammates"--Earvin "Magic" Johnson
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 02, 2010, 06:49am
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,191
Quote:
Originally Posted by chseagle View Post
Where in the rule book or case book does it say that the AC can approach the table?
Who's to say the AC isn't the statistician? Frankly, most times I couldn't tell the difference between the manager and an AC, as I see only three sorts of people on the bench.

1. HC
2. Players
3. Everyone else

If he's actually bothering you, it's different. Address it with the officials during a timeout or intermission; but if he's just checking with his scorer for statistical information, I'd let it go.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 02, 2010, 07:09am
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hell
Posts: 20,213
Quote:
Originally Posted by chseagle View Post
Sorry but I will not, as you say, "get lost", I am asking a valid question and have mentioned the rule pertaining to what I am asking as well as a case book scenario.
I agree. Valid question.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 02, 2010, 07:16am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Somewhere on the earth
Posts: 1,601
In one of the situations I'm talking about, the AC is just basically a bench warmer except during timeouts as the team uses either lower level players as statisticians or other willing individuals.

For example: at my alma mater all the coaches on game day wear polos with the school name on them whereas the manager(s) are normally in regular street clothes with nothing identifying the school. The AC in question is the JV Coach & has one of those "higher than thou" attitudes were he thinks he's better than everyone else & is above the rules.

Yes I do realize everyone may have a varying view to the wording of both the rule & the case. As I am reading it, like stated above, not one of the coaches is supposed to be approaching the table at all unless they stay inside their coaching box (the HC only) and discuss game strategy with a player coming in to sub. If they want to know information, such as fouls, they can ask the scorer during dead ball periods from the coaches box.

Both my wife & I are thinking of doing it one step better & mentioning it to the HC since we're on good relations with him.

It's my understanding that during a Varsity Contest, the only coach that should be doing any communications/interactions with the game officials is the HC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Who's to say the AC isn't the statistician? Frankly, most times I couldn't tell the difference between the manager and an AC, as I see only three sorts of people on the bench.

1. HC
2. Players
3. Everyone else

If he's actually bothering you, it's different. Address it with the officials during a timeout or intermission; but if he's just checking with his scorer for statistical information, I'd let it go.
__________________
"Ask not what your teammates can do for you. Ask what you can do for your teammates"--Earvin "Magic" Johnson

Last edited by chseagle; Tue Nov 02, 2010 at 07:23am.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 02, 2010, 07:35am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 7,621
Quote:
Originally Posted by chseagle View Post
It's my understanding that during a Varsity Contest, the only coach that should be doing any communications/interactions with the game officials is the HC.
Yeah, that's in the book -- as a tool to cool down situations that are getting confrontational. Around here if you tried to enforce that routinely you'd be considered a total pr!ck and lose games.
__________________
Cheers,
mb
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 02, 2010, 07:50am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 17,241
It's one of those "spirit of the rules" vs. "letter of the rules" issues. IMO, it's there so that IF there's a problem, it can be dealt with. If there's no problem, then ignore it.

Other phrases that apply:
1) Don't be a plumber
2) Officiate with the book, not by the book
3) Officiate the game; manage situations
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 02, 2010, 09:28am
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 13,653
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee View Post
I agree. Valid question.
I agree. In a college camp a couple summers ago (AAU tourney) my entire crew got BLASTED by the observer b/c we didn't handle an AC who was making regular trips to the table.

It was actually the most pissed off an observer has ever been in regards to a game I worked.
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR

Last edited by Raymond; Tue Nov 02, 2010 at 09:31am.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 02, 2010, 09:49am
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hell
Posts: 20,213
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
I agree. In a college camp a couple summers ago (AAU tourney) my entire crew got BLASTED by the observer b/c we didn't handle an AC who was making regular trips to the table.

It was actually the most pissed off an observer has ever been in regards to a game I worked.
How did the observer instruct you to handle it, News? Come-To-Jesus talk with the HC, warning, or "T"?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bench Technical CDurham Basketball 5 Fri Feb 12, 2010 12:28pm
Bench Technical vs. Player Technical whistlesblow Basketball 25 Tue Jan 20, 2009 08:09am
Bench Technical Spence Basketball 11 Thu Nov 13, 2008 12:39am
Bench Technical? Tee Basketball 2 Sat Jan 01, 2005 03:03pm
BENCH TECHNICAL FOULS WCBRAAS Basketball 10 Fri Dec 14, 2001 10:23am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:38am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1