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Old Tue Nov 02, 2010, 02:27am
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Question Bench Technical or not

Rule 10-4-4 states:
"Stand at the team bench while the clock is running or is stopped, & must remain seated, except:
a. The head coach as in 10-5-1.
b. When a team member is reporting to the scorer's table.
c. During a charged time-out, as in 5-12-5, or the intermission between quarters and extra periods.
d. To spontaneously react to an outstanding play by a team member or to acknowledge a replaced player(s), but must immediately return to his/her seat.
PENALTY: (Arts. 1, 2, 3, 4) Two free throws plus ball for division-line throw-in. If the head coach is the offender, the foul is charged directly to him/her. The foul is charged to the offender (if not the head coach) and also charged indirectly to the head coach. (Art. 1g) Flagrant foul, the offender is disqualified. If the offender is bench personnel, each foul is also charged indirectly to the head coach."

As this rule is stated, should there be a technical foul assessed for the assistant coach to leave the bench, & go behind the scorers' table to look at the scorebook to check on player fouls or quarters played during the middle of the game, during time-outs, or between quarters/halves??

As I am reading & understanding the rule, the assistant coach is only supposed to be behind the scorers' table as the team is coming out for warm-ups or to start the 2nd half.

Am I interpreting this right?

If I am reading/interpreting the rule right, what can the official scorer &/or timer do (if anything) to cease this activity?
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Last edited by chseagle; Tue Nov 02, 2010 at 03:36am.
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Old Tue Nov 02, 2010, 02:44am
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Originally Posted by chseagle View Post
If I am reading/interpreting the rule right, what can the official scorer &/or timer do (if anything) to cease this activity?
Save your allowance and get that taser.
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Old Tue Nov 02, 2010, 03:06am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chseagle View Post
If I am reading/interpreting the rule right, what can the official scorer &/or timer do (if anything) to cease this activity?
Did you miss the memo??; apply your taser to the offending individual, as per rule 2-11&12, specially amended for WIAA to accomodate officiating wannabes.
In the real world, gay kocken offen yom...
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Old Tue Nov 02, 2010, 03:28am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chseagle View Post
Am I interpreting this right?

If I am reading/interpreting the rule right, what can the official scorer &/or timer do (if anything) to cease this activity?
Almost. The AC, is not restricted to the bench during intermissions/timeouts.

As for what you can do...obscure whatever they are trying to look at and ignore them.

You "might" wish to inform the officials that he AC is interfering with your ability to do your job by being at the table and distracting you during play. More than likely (and probably the recommended approach for the first occurrence), the officials will simply tell the AC to stay in his seat and not go to the table.
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Last edited by Camron Rust; Tue Nov 02, 2010 at 03:31am.
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Old Tue Nov 02, 2010, 03:51am
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Page 89 of the 2009-2010 Case Book:

"10.5.1 SITUATION C: The coach of Team A leaves the bench area and goes to the table to seek information other than a correctable error: (a) during a time-out; or (b) during the intermission between the first and second quarters. RULING: A technical foul is charged directly to the coach in both (a) and (b). If this information is required, it must be secured by a manager or statistician, etc., when the clock is stopped and the ball is dead. A coach is not permitted at the table for this purpose. To allow exceptions would open the door for exploitation and would result in situations which could not be enforced consistently."

Above is a reason why I am asking, especially with the wording saying a manager or statistician are the only ones that can approach the table. Since it also states at the end "A coach is not permitted at the table for this purpose.", would that also include assistant coaches as they are also coaches & not managers or statisticians?

Another reason why I am asking is cause of seeing it happen before & interfering with the table crew's duties.
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Old Tue Nov 02, 2010, 03:56am
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Where in the rule book or case book does it say that the AC can approach the table?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
Almost. The AC, is not restricted to the bench during intermissions/timeouts.
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Old Tue Nov 02, 2010, 04:14am
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In the real world, gay kocken offen yom...
Nice!
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Old Tue Nov 02, 2010, 04:43am
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Sorry but I will not, as you say, "get lost", I am asking a valid question and have mentioned the rule pertaining to what I am asking as well as a case book scenario.

As I stated in another thread, because a taser is considered a weapon, I cannot carry one on school grounds

Quote:
Originally Posted by justacoach View Post
Did you miss the memo??; apply your taser to the offending individual, as per rule 2-11&12, specially amended for WIAA to accomodate officiating wannabes.
In the real world, gay kocken offen yom...
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Old Tue Nov 02, 2010, 06:49am
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Originally Posted by chseagle View Post
Where in the rule book or case book does it say that the AC can approach the table?
Who's to say the AC isn't the statistician? Frankly, most times I couldn't tell the difference between the manager and an AC, as I see only three sorts of people on the bench.

1. HC
2. Players
3. Everyone else

If he's actually bothering you, it's different. Address it with the officials during a timeout or intermission; but if he's just checking with his scorer for statistical information, I'd let it go.
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Old Tue Nov 02, 2010, 07:09am
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Originally Posted by chseagle View Post
Sorry but I will not, as you say, "get lost", I am asking a valid question and have mentioned the rule pertaining to what I am asking as well as a case book scenario.
I agree. Valid question.
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Old Tue Nov 02, 2010, 07:16am
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In one of the situations I'm talking about, the AC is just basically a bench warmer except during timeouts as the team uses either lower level players as statisticians or other willing individuals.

For example: at my alma mater all the coaches on game day wear polos with the school name on them whereas the manager(s) are normally in regular street clothes with nothing identifying the school. The AC in question is the JV Coach & has one of those "higher than thou" attitudes were he thinks he's better than everyone else & is above the rules.

Yes I do realize everyone may have a varying view to the wording of both the rule & the case. As I am reading it, like stated above, not one of the coaches is supposed to be approaching the table at all unless they stay inside their coaching box (the HC only) and discuss game strategy with a player coming in to sub. If they want to know information, such as fouls, they can ask the scorer during dead ball periods from the coaches box.

Both my wife & I are thinking of doing it one step better & mentioning it to the HC since we're on good relations with him.

It's my understanding that during a Varsity Contest, the only coach that should be doing any communications/interactions with the game officials is the HC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Who's to say the AC isn't the statistician? Frankly, most times I couldn't tell the difference between the manager and an AC, as I see only three sorts of people on the bench.

1. HC
2. Players
3. Everyone else

If he's actually bothering you, it's different. Address it with the officials during a timeout or intermission; but if he's just checking with his scorer for statistical information, I'd let it go.
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Last edited by chseagle; Tue Nov 02, 2010 at 07:23am.
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Old Tue Nov 02, 2010, 07:35am
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Originally Posted by chseagle View Post
It's my understanding that during a Varsity Contest, the only coach that should be doing any communications/interactions with the game officials is the HC.
Yeah, that's in the book -- as a tool to cool down situations that are getting confrontational. Around here if you tried to enforce that routinely you'd be considered a total pr!ck and lose games.
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Old Tue Nov 02, 2010, 07:50am
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It's one of those "spirit of the rules" vs. "letter of the rules" issues. IMO, it's there so that IF there's a problem, it can be dealt with. If there's no problem, then ignore it.

Other phrases that apply:
1) Don't be a plumber
2) Officiate with the book, not by the book
3) Officiate the game; manage situations
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Old Tue Nov 02, 2010, 09:28am
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I agree. Valid question.
I agree. In a college camp a couple summers ago (AAU tourney) my entire crew got BLASTED by the observer b/c we didn't handle an AC who was making regular trips to the table.

It was actually the most pissed off an observer has ever been in regards to a game I worked.
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Last edited by Raymond; Tue Nov 02, 2010 at 09:31am.
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Old Tue Nov 02, 2010, 09:49am
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Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
I agree. In a college camp a couple summers ago (AAU tourney) my entire crew got BLASTED by the observer b/c we didn't handle an AC who was making regular trips to the table.

It was actually the most pissed off an observer has ever been in regards to a game I worked.
How did the observer instruct you to handle it, News? Come-To-Jesus talk with the HC, warning, or "T"?
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