Womens D-I

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Multiple Sports

I have to agree with Oracle on this one. There is a mentality especially in the NE that says you stay in your pond and I'll stay in in mine. I have a friend who is young and successful in the Women's DI game and he tells me all the time about how he thinks there is more commraderie in the women's game than the men's. There is no doubt that the men's game is more physical than the NBA because we don't call ABSOLUTES like they do in NCAA - W and the NBA.

I love being on the men's side and would never give it up, but I think that John Adams really wants to speed things up regarding our adoption of NBA philosphies.........

What philosophy that is used that the NCAA Men's do not use? Reporting with two hands? Giving a "hit to the head" signal? That is the NBA philosophies you are talking about? Because you realize that the NCAA-M tape has been talking about Absolutes for a couple of years now? I used to attend NCAA-W camps and I never saw that concept on any tape when Marcy Weston was the coordinator or in the early years of Mary Struckoff.

And the camaraderie thing is very subjective. The vast majority of officials on the Men's side have been very helpful and very friendly. I have had the privilege to work with many guys that work the D1 level and they have treated me and others as equals on the floor. They know their role and that they are going to be looked to and they have been nothing but helpful. And I expect more egos at that level as there are more officials that have accomplished something. All I see on the Women's side is the same two or three working the big time games no matter where those games are in the country.
And when I go to camps and I deal with guys all over the country, those are good people. To act like Women's side as fewer egos is silly. I used to be in the room with some heavy hitters were at the NCAA clinics and those were people that felt unapproachable. I have not felt the same in the room with guys we have talked about here.

Peace

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

And I expect more egos at that level as there are more officials that have accomplished something. All I see on the Women's side is the same two or three working the big time games no matter where those games are in the country.
And when I go to camps and I deal with guys all over the country, those are good people. To act like Women's side as fewer egos is silly. Peace

JRUT, I will agree with you on a few things. The first being that you do seem to see the same officials working the Big Games. However, since they mostly seem to come from the region I am in, I can say "I knew them when!!!" But you also see, at least here in ACC country, and if memory serves the same was true in Big 10 country, the same officials working the men's side as well. Which begs the question, if these coaches are seeing the same officials alot during the season, how can they complain that the officials are inconsistent? ANYWHO...Yes, we have some ego's on the women's side. However, this is where men and women are different in their personality. It PROBABLY gets more 'catty' on this side than on the men's. And on the mens side you probably have more people trying to 'mark their space" That is just a general difference between men and women in general.
Also, we STILL go table side when calling fouls. We aren't big chickens and try to hide on the other side of the court and let our partners take the earful!!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Judtech

JRUT, I will agree with you on a few things. The first being that you do seem to see the same officials working the Big Games. However, since they mostly seem to come from the region I am in, I can say "I knew them when!!!" But you also see, at least here in ACC country, and if memory serves the same was true in Big 10 country, the same officials working the men's side as well.

Not the same. I guy that works in the Big Ten is not likely to work in the ACC. A guy working in the Big East is not likely to work in the Big 12. Yes you see some of the same officials, but you see many more guys working in different regions. I can turn on the UConn-Tennessee game (I know they do not play anymore) and I can see the same official. Then when UConn plays Duke, the same official. then when Tennessee plays Rutgers, the same official. As much as people like to rag on guys like Steve Welmer or Hightower, they are not working in all those conferences and has their best game. More officials and apparently more guys are trusted to work on national TV.

Originally Posted by Judtech

Which begs the question, if these coaches are seeing the same officials alot during the season, how can they complain that the officials are inconsistent? ANYWHO...Yes, we have some ego's on the women's side. However, this is where men and women are different in their personality. It PROBABLY gets more 'catty' on this side than on the men's. And on the mens side you probably have more people trying to 'mark their space" That is just a general difference between men and women in general.

Any profession when you have successful people working together you are going to have clashes. I have never tried to say that there are not people that do not like each other. But to suggest that it is much more on the Men's side is kind of silly. I know a few people that work on the D1-W side and I can tell you stories about things that have circulated about officials not liking each other. Of course I am not going to do that, but some of the situations are much more drama than what happens on the Men's side. For one you have both women and men working together with all kinds of cliques involved. You do not have that on the Men's side. And I have personally worked with a lot of D1 guys on games and they have been extremely nice and they hardly ever make you feel like you do not belong.

Originally Posted by Judtech

Also, we STILL go table side when calling fouls. We aren't big chickens and try to hide on the other side of the court and let our partners take the earful!!

The reason that was changed is that there were too many unnecessary conversations. It does not make much difference anyway, you still can say things to them. I could make a joke here but I will not.

Peace

[IREFU2]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

What philosophy that is used that the NCAA Men's do not use? Reporting with two hands? Giving a "hit to the head" signal? That is the NBA philosophies you are talking about? Because you realize that the NCAA-M tape has been talking about Absolutes for a couple of years now? I used to attend NCAA-W camps and I never saw that concept on any tape when Marcy Weston was the coordinator or in the early years of Mary Struckoff.

And the camaraderie thing is very subjective. The vast majority of officials on the Men's side have been very helpful and very friendly. I have had the privilege to work with many guys that work the D1 level and they have treated me and others as equals on the floor. They know their role and that they are going to be looked to and they have been nothing but helpful. And I expect more egos at that level as there are more officials that have accomplished something. All I see on the Women's side is the same two or three working the big time games no matter where those games are in the country.
And when I go to camps and I deal with guys all over the country, those are good people. To act like Women's side as fewer egos is silly. I used to be in the room with some heavy hitters were at the NCAA clinics and those were people that felt unapproachable. I have not felt the same in the room with guys we have talked about here.

Peace

Easy Rut....stay in your primary.......

[Multiple Sports]

Originally Posted by IREFU2

Easy Rut....stay in your primary.......

Rut is going to take all the double whistles to the table !!!!!!!

[Multiple Sports]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

What philosophy that is used that the NCAA Men's do not use? Reporting with two hands? Giving a "hit to the head" signal? That is the NBA philosophies you are talking about? Because you realize that the NCAA-M tape has been talking about Absolutes for a couple of years now? I used to attend NCAA-W camps and I never saw that concept on any tape when Marcy Weston was the coordinator or in the early years of Mary Struckoff.

And the camaraderie thing is very subjective. The vast majority of officials on the Men's side have been very helpful and very friendly. I have had the privilege to work with many guys that work the D1 level and they have treated me and others as equals on the floor. They know their role and that they are going to be looked to and they have been nothing but helpful. And I expect more egos at that level as there are more officials that have accomplished something. All I see on the Women's side is the same two or three working the big time games no matter where those games are in the country.
And when I go to camps and I deal with guys all over the country, those are good people. To act like Women's side as fewer egos is silly. I used to be in the room with some heavy hitters were at the NCAA clinics and those were people that felt unapproachable. I have not felt the same in the room with guys we have talked about here.

Peace

Rut -

Just hear me out or go to a Big East game !!!!!!

Do you really think that some of the "Heavy Hitters" ( I freakin hate that term) in the Big East (Burr / Higgins / Kitts ) really identify with what J. Adams
is preachin. They are more of the Hank Nichols approach of adv/dis.

From where I am, I am tellin you that down in the Va / Carolina's they have bought
into the NBA / NCAA - W approach and in the NE it is, "Get up you aren't bleedin yet"

I know someone that works for both Larry Rose and Joe Forte and he says he

works two completely different ways for their "systems".

Don't get me wrong there are a lot of team players on the guy's side, yes you are right, I just think the ego's on our side at times can be detrimental
to our comraderie.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Multiple Sports

Rut -

Just hear me out or go to a Big East game !!!!!!

Do you really think that some of the "Heavy Hitters" ( I freakin hate that term) in the Big East (Burr / Higgins / Kitts ) really identify with what J. Adams
is preachin. They are more of the Hank Nichols approach of adv/dis.

Ask yourself how many NCAA Tournament games have these individuals worked in the past couple of years? That should be your answer.

Originally Posted by Multiple Sports

From where I am, I am tellin you that down in the Va / Carolina's they have bought
into the NBA / NCAA - W approach and in the NE it is, "Get up you aren't bleedin yet"

Well that is where you live. I live in the Midwest and John Adams was the assignor of a D2 conference and supervisor of the Horizon League at the D1 level (he also assigned a D3 league). You know where Adams stands on these things, well who I worked for took a similar stance.

Originally Posted by Multiple Sports

I know someone that works for both Larry Rose and Joe Forte and he says he

works two completely different ways for their "systems".

What does that have to do with Men's basketball? That seems like that has to do with those individuals and what they assign. The only thing maybe you could say is that Patty Broderick has more conferences and more power to decide what people do at the lower level and high level that she assigns. I know an assignor in my area that cannot stand another assignor and if you work for one guy, you likely do not work at all for the other. They both openly talk about how they do not like each other and if you try to work for both and you have game conflicts, the other will reduce your schedule or will not allow you to move up to the next level to get off their game.

To act like people do not work for different people and have to adhere to different standards is not entirely true.

The thing I hear people say that they get from the NBA is really their mechanics. Just because you report with two hands and have a similar coverage area does not mean you are trained the same. That is the most laughable part of this, because I have watched people at a NCAA-W camp and I did not see anything drastically similar that the NBA does. I have said this before; there is an NBA Evaluator/former NBA Official in my association. When he was at a college camp I attended out of state and when he did a film review for our association (which he is a Hall of Famer), I did not hear the same concepts coming from anyone else at any college camp I have ever attended.

Originally Posted by Multiple Sports

Don't get me wrong there are a lot of team players on the guy's side, yes you are right, I just think the ego's on our side at times can be detrimental
to our comraderie.

Maybe that is an area issue, not an NCAA level issue. I will say this again, I am fortunately to work in a league where I work with a D1 guy every other game. And when you go to the camp to get in one of my leagues, the same guys I see all the time. Those guys are nothing but helpful and treat a lot of us who are not on their level like equals. Of course they know who they are, but they have befriended many of us not on that level and help us get other opportunities. And I also know personally many D1-W officials and to act like there are not egos and factions that like and do not like each other is silly. There are many on that side that fight with each other and talk about the other behind their back (just like they do on the Men's side). The situations I have heard on the Women's side do not compare with the issues I hear about on the Men's side. And those situations on the Men's side are often about professional differences, not personal differences.

Peace

[Judtech]

Rut, we agree. You actually made some of my points. You are much more likely to hear backstabbing and gossip on the women's side than on the Mens side. On the Men's side you will hear more 'This si the way I think it should be done so FU if you think otherwise". Granted that this is a 'generalization' but fairly accurate and neither is exactly flattering for either side. I make no claim, no think one can be made, that either side is "better" then the other. I will say that they are different and fit some personalities better than others.
As for the "Big Games" you may be right, I know alot of officials work for multiple "Big Time" conferences. Several work for the ACC AND Big East or the SEC and ACC. Since that is where most of the top 25 teams reside (Duke, Carolina, Maryland, UConn, Rutgers, ND, Tennessee, LSU, UVa, just to name a few) then you probably will see the same officials on each game. I do not know if the same cross Big Time conference is the same or not. It also has to do with a type of parity on the Men's side. For instance, the WVU / Uconn Men's game should be more competitive then the WVU / UConn women's game. But that is another topic
And face it, you are just jealous we can still use both hands to report because it looks so darn cool!!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Judtech

And face it, you are just jealous we can still use both hands to report because it looks so darn cool!!

Actually the Men's side can do that to. But you will never see me do it. It looks stupid.

Peace

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Judtech

And face it, you are just jealous we can still use both hands to report because it looks so darn cool!!

My guess is that it will be the required mechanic on the Men's side within 5 years.

[IREFU2]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Actually the Men's side can do that to. But you will never see me do it. It looks stupid.

Peace

Wow, you are very anal towards NCAA-W Basketball. The last time I checked, the pay was the same and we even now we have dunking in our game. With your attitude/opinions, I am suprised you made it out of JV basketball......

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by IREFU2

Wow, you are very anal towards NCAA-W Basketball. The last time I checked, the pay was the same and we even now we have dunking in our game. With your attitude/opinions, I am suprised you made it out of JV basketball......

Thank you for proving my point BTW. I did not ask you what you were paid. Nor do I care what you are paid. I can tell you that I have yet to meet an official on the Men's side that cares what they are paid compared to Women's basketball. One of the reasons they are not there.

And the funniest comment of all was the JV comment. Thank you for the laugh.

Peace

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Actually the Men's side can do that to. But you will never see me do it. It looks stupid.

Peace

It only looks stupid to those who do not have the advanced motor and cognitive skilles to use both hands at once!