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  #46 (permalink)  
Old Fri Oct 29, 2010, 08:22am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
What philosophy that is used that the NCAA Men's do not use? Reporting with two hands? Giving a "hit to the head" signal? That is the NBA philosophies you are talking about? Because you realize that the NCAA-M tape has been talking about Absolutes for a couple of years now? I used to attend NCAA-W camps and I never saw that concept on any tape when Marcy Weston was the coordinator or in the early years of Mary Struckoff.

And the camaraderie thing is very subjective. The vast majority of officials on the Men's side have been very helpful and very friendly. I have had the privilege to work with many guys that work the D1 level and they have treated me and others as equals on the floor. They know their role and that they are going to be looked to and they have been nothing but helpful. And I expect more egos at that level as there are more officials that have accomplished something. All I see on the Women's side is the same two or three working the big time games no matter where those games are in the country.
And when I go to camps and I deal with guys all over the country, those are good people. To act like Women's side as fewer egos is silly. I used to be in the room with some heavy hitters were at the NCAA clinics and those were people that felt unapproachable. I have not felt the same in the room with guys we have talked about here.

Peace
Easy Rut....stay in your primary.......
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old Fri Oct 29, 2010, 12:10pm
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by IREFU2 View Post
Easy Rut....stay in your primary.......
Rut is going to take all the double whistles to the table !!!!!!!
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old Fri Oct 29, 2010, 12:23pm
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Can't believe I am debating J - Rut !!!!!!!!! I need a drink !!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
What philosophy that is used that the NCAA Men's do not use? Reporting with two hands? Giving a "hit to the head" signal? That is the NBA philosophies you are talking about? Because you realize that the NCAA-M tape has been talking about Absolutes for a couple of years now? I used to attend NCAA-W camps and I never saw that concept on any tape when Marcy Weston was the coordinator or in the early years of Mary Struckoff.

And the camaraderie thing is very subjective. The vast majority of officials on the Men's side have been very helpful and very friendly. I have had the privilege to work with many guys that work the D1 level and they have treated me and others as equals on the floor. They know their role and that they are going to be looked to and they have been nothing but helpful. And I expect more egos at that level as there are more officials that have accomplished something. All I see on the Women's side is the same two or three working the big time games no matter where those games are in the country.
And when I go to camps and I deal with guys all over the country, those are good people. To act like Women's side as fewer egos is silly. I used to be in the room with some heavy hitters were at the NCAA clinics and those were people that felt unapproachable. I have not felt the same in the room with guys we have talked about here.

Peace
Rut -

Just hear me out or go to a Big East game !!!!!!

Do you really think that some of the "Heavy Hitters" ( I freakin hate that term) in the Big East (Burr / Higgins / Kitts ) really identify with what J. Adams
is preachin. They are more of the Hank Nichols approach of adv/dis.

From where I am, I am tellin you that down in the Va / Carolina's they have bought
into the NBA / NCAA - W approach and in the NE it is, "Get up you aren't bleedin yet"

I know someone that works for both Larry Rose and Joe Forte and he says he

works two completely different ways for their "systems".

Don't get me wrong there are a lot of team players on the guy's side, yes you are right, I just think the ego's on our side at times can be detrimental
to our comraderie.
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old Fri Oct 29, 2010, 12:51pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Multiple Sports View Post
Rut -

Just hear me out or go to a Big East game !!!!!!

Do you really think that some of the "Heavy Hitters" ( I freakin hate that term) in the Big East (Burr / Higgins / Kitts ) really identify with what J. Adams
is preachin. They are more of the Hank Nichols approach of adv/dis.
Ask yourself how many NCAA Tournament games have these individuals worked in the past couple of years? That should be your answer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Multiple Sports View Post
From where I am, I am tellin you that down in the Va / Carolina's they have bought
into the NBA / NCAA - W approach and in the NE it is, "Get up you aren't bleedin yet"
Well that is where you live. I live in the Midwest and John Adams was the assignor of a D2 conference and supervisor of the Horizon League at the D1 level (he also assigned a D3 league). You know where Adams stands on these things, well who I worked for took a similar stance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Multiple Sports View Post
I know someone that works for both Larry Rose and Joe Forte and he says he

works two completely different ways for their "systems".
What does that have to do with Men's basketball? That seems like that has to do with those individuals and what they assign. The only thing maybe you could say is that Patty Broderick has more conferences and more power to decide what people do at the lower level and high level that she assigns. I know an assignor in my area that cannot stand another assignor and if you work for one guy, you likely do not work at all for the other. They both openly talk about how they do not like each other and if you try to work for both and you have game conflicts, the other will reduce your schedule or will not allow you to move up to the next level to get off their game.

To act like people do not work for different people and have to adhere to different standards is not entirely true.

The thing I hear people say that they get from the NBA is really their mechanics. Just because you report with two hands and have a similar coverage area does not mean you are trained the same. That is the most laughable part of this, because I have watched people at a NCAA-W camp and I did not see anything drastically similar that the NBA does. I have said this before; there is an NBA Evaluator/former NBA Official in my association. When he was at a college camp I attended out of state and when he did a film review for our association (which he is a Hall of Famer), I did not hear the same concepts coming from anyone else at any college camp I have ever attended.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Multiple Sports View Post
Don't get me wrong there are a lot of team players on the guy's side, yes you are right, I just think the ego's on our side at times can be detrimental
to our comraderie.
Maybe that is an area issue, not an NCAA level issue. I will say this again, I am fortunately to work in a league where I work with a D1 guy every other game. And when you go to the camp to get in one of my leagues, the same guys I see all the time. Those guys are nothing but helpful and treat a lot of us who are not on their level like equals. Of course they know who they are, but they have befriended many of us not on that level and help us get other opportunities. And I also know personally many D1-W officials and to act like there are not egos and factions that like and do not like each other is silly. There are many on that side that fight with each other and talk about the other behind their back (just like they do on the Men's side). The situations I have heard on the Women's side do not compare with the issues I hear about on the Men's side. And those situations on the Men's side are often about professional differences, not personal differences.

Peace
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old Fri Oct 29, 2010, 07:56pm
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Rut, we agree. You actually made some of my points. You are much more likely to hear backstabbing and gossip on the women's side than on the Mens side. On the Men's side you will hear more 'This si the way I think it should be done so FU if you think otherwise". Granted that this is a 'generalization' but fairly accurate and neither is exactly flattering for either side. I make no claim, no think one can be made, that either side is "better" then the other. I will say that they are different and fit some personalities better than others.
As for the "Big Games" you may be right, I know alot of officials work for multiple "Big Time" conferences. Several work for the ACC AND Big East or the SEC and ACC. Since that is where most of the top 25 teams reside (Duke, Carolina, Maryland, UConn, Rutgers, ND, Tennessee, LSU, UVa, just to name a few) then you probably will see the same officials on each game. I do not know if the same cross Big Time conference is the same or not. It also has to do with a type of parity on the Men's side. For instance, the WVU / Uconn Men's game should be more competitive then the WVU / UConn women's game. But that is another topic
And face it, you are just jealous we can still use both hands to report because it looks so darn cool!!
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old Sat Oct 30, 2010, 12:51am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judtech View Post
And face it, you are just jealous we can still use both hands to report because it looks so darn cool!!
Actually the Men's side can do that to. But you will never see me do it. It looks stupid.

Peace
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old Sat Oct 30, 2010, 11:07am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judtech View Post
And face it, you are just jealous we can still use both hands to report because it looks so darn cool!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Actually the Men's side can do that to. But you will never see me do it. It looks stupid.
My guess is that it will be the required mechanic on the Men's side within 5 years.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old Sun Oct 31, 2010, 05:40pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Actually the Men's side can do that to. But you will never see me do it. It looks stupid.

Peace
Wow, you are very anal towards NCAA-W Basketball. The last time I checked, the pay was the same and we even now we have dunking in our game. With your attitude/opinions, I am suprised you made it out of JV basketball......
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 01, 2010, 09:49am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Actually the Men's side can do that to. But you will never see me do it. It looks stupid.

Peace
It only looks stupid to those who do not have the advanced motor and cognitive skilles to use both hands at once!
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 01, 2010, 09:59am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IREFU2 View Post
Wow, you are very anal towards NCAA-W Basketball. The last time I checked, the pay was the same and we even now we have dunking in our game. With your attitude/opinions, I am suprised you made it out of JV basketball......
Thank you for proving my point BTW. I did not ask you what you were paid. Nor do I care what you are paid. I can tell you that I have yet to meet an official on the Men's side that cares what they are paid compared to Women's basketball. One of the reasons they are not there.

And the funniest comment of all was the JV comment. Thank you for the laugh.

Peace
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 01, 2010, 11:09am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Thank you for proving my point BTW. I did not ask you what you were paid. Nor do I care what you are paid. I can tell you that I have yet to meet an official on the Men's side that cares what they are paid compared to Women's basketball. One of the reasons they are not there.

And the funniest comment of all was the JV comment. Thank you for the laugh.

Peace
I dont see the point that was proven and I wasn't talking about what I was getting paid at all. It was a general statement. I see you just pull out the things your can feast on. All I am saying is that discrediting the way things are done on the womens side is not good business. We are all Officials and we can learn from each other.

Peace.
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 01, 2010, 11:44am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IREFU2 View Post
I dont see the point that was proven and I wasn't talking about what I was getting paid at all. It was a general statement.
You obviously did not read what I said earlier. Then you said the very thing why Women's NCAA Officials like to say often, which seems like a justification for doing that level as if they do not want to. Worked with a guy this weekend that made it clear he does not want to work that level and made a similar comment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IREFU2 View Post
I see you just pull out the things your can feast on. All I am saying is that discrediting the way things are done on the womens side is not good business. We are all Officials and we can learn from each other.
Take a chill pill. I think anyone can question, comment or evaluate the way anyone does something and especially if that applies to the NCAA Men's or Women's side, NBA and even the NF. Give me a break if you think people here cannot comment because it hurts your feelings. There are things the NBA does I would never want our levels to do. Does that mean I cannot do that either because you say so? And I have not only worked NCAA Women's ball and I have seen it done for years. I do not have to accept something just because they do it or where they claim they pull the ideas from. Also the rules and the way the games are played are different, the mechanics should reflect those differences.

Peace
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 02, 2010, 03:13pm
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Debating Rut is like watching MSNBC !!!!!!!! Both Painful!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
You obviously did not read what I said earlier. Then you said the very thing why Women's NCAA Officials like to say often, which seems like a justification for doing that level as if they do not want to. Worked with a guy this weekend that made it clear he does not want to work that level and made a similar comment.



Take a chill pill. I think anyone can question, comment or evaluate the way anyone does something and especially if that applies to the NCAA Men's or Women's side, NBA and even the NF. Give me a break if you think people here cannot comment because it hurts your feelings. There are things the NBA does I would never want our levels to do. Does that mean I cannot do that either because you say so? And I have not only worked NCAA Women's ball and I have seen it done for years. I do not have to accept something just because they do it or where they claim they pull the ideas from. Also the rules and the way the games are played are different, the mechanics should reflect those differences.

Peace
Rut -

For the longest time I was in your camp, now I am starting to change a bit.

I am all for most NBA philosophies, I just think we need to LOOK like college

officialswhile we are officiating What in your opinion are some of the things

they do in the NBA that you hope we (NCAA - M) never do???

Hey Rut are you going to have a new Senator in Illinois tonight ?????
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 04, 2010, 01:39am
Do not give a damn!!
 
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Thumbs down Can you throw in a period somewhere?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Multiple Sports View Post
Rut -

For the longest time I was in your camp, now I am starting to change a bit.

I am all for most NBA philosophies, I just think we need to LOOK like college

officialswhile we are officiating What in your opinion are some of the things

they do in the NBA that you hope we (NCAA - M) never do???

Hey Rut are you going to have a new Senator in Illinois tonight ?????
Whether you are in my "camp" is up to you. And if you have not noticed I am not debating you. Just stating my opinion. Either accept it or get over it.

The NBA game is different and they have different rules. Why would we want to use the same mechanics and the games are not played the same way?

Peace
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