Womens D-I

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by CDurham

I have my first Womens Division I srimmage in a few weeks and am making the switch from high school. Any tips or pointers? Thanks

Without trying to make this sound like you don't deserve this, how do you go from HS directly to D-I without going to D-I camps, D-III games, etc?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by dahoopref

This is one of the things that John Adams is trying to correct and I (respectfully of course ) must disagree with your assignor. But I understand that you must do what your assignor tells you to do.

Adams is trying his best to get all officials "on the same page" and be uniform when it comes to floor work. It is the thinking of your assignor that is detriment of what Adams is attempting to do.

I think you kind of missed the point of what he was stating. He was just saying that getting it right is expected, not the, "Do not fish in my pond" ideal that many older guys have held onto.

Peace

[CDurham]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Without trying to make this sound like you don't deserve this, how do you go from HS directly to D-I without going to D-I camps, D-III games, etc?

I've attended several open gyms where there has been a D-I college official or assignor present. They liked me and afterwards came up and asked what I was doing on this date. I said nothing and they said alright you have a scrimmage. So me, the guy who asked, and another guy who are both veterans will be going up and working the womens scrimmage.

No disrespect taken on the statement Bob.

[CDurham]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

Do you currently work women's college ball? The women's college game is much different than the men's game and high school. Way too much to know to get all in a post.

I do not.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by dahoopref

This is one of the things that John Adams is trying to correct and I (respectfully of course ) must disagree with your assignor.

Oh? Does John Adams really want us to get the f**king call wrong?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Without trying to make this sound like you don't deserve this, how do you go from HS directly to D-I without going to D-I camps, D-III games, etc?

Live in SoCal.

If you're not there in 3 years, you're relegated to high school games only.

[CLH]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I think this is one of those myths that women's officials want to claim so they can justify why they are doing Women's ball rather than men's ball.
Peace

Interesting, one could assume that by this statement you believe those who can't hack it on the Men's side are banished to working womens. I work women's ball by choice sir, mainly because it keeps me away from the very egos you just illustrated by your assumption that NCAA-W are inferior to the men's officials.

Just an observation my friend....

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by dahoopref

This is one of the things that John Adams is trying to correct and I (respectfully of course ) must disagree with your assignor. But I understand that you must do what your assignor tells you to do.

Adams is trying his best to get all officials "on the same page" and be uniform when it comes to floor work. It is the thinking of your assignor that is detriment of what Adams is attempting to do.

Never lose sight of the fact that positioning mechanics are only best practices, and their purpose is get the official to the best spot to see the play. If John Adams is preaching the gospel of being in the "proper" magic spot on the floor above all else, he is simply wrong. If he is preaching the gospel of being in the right place to see the play even if it isn't the magic spot on the floor, then he is spot on.

And that's what I inferred from Scrappy's assigner's statement...that it's not as important to be standing on some magical spot on the floor as it is to get the call right.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by CLH

Interesting, one could assume that by this statement you believe those who can't hack it on the Men's side are banished to working womens. I work women's ball by choice sir, mainly because it keeps me away from the very egos you just illustrated by your assumption that NCAA-W are inferior to the men's officials.

Just an observation my friend....

You can take it anyway you like, but most officials that work college ball make a choice of some kind what to pursue. That is especially true in the current camp season.

But a lot of Women's officials seem to want to justify their reasons for working that ball. I should know, as almost every small college game I work I hear a Women's official point out to me or someone (not prompted to make such a comment by anyone as well) and say, "We get the same money as you do." Then look at you like you are making some mistake working a Men's game. Well sorry, but I choose to work Men's basketball because that is what I always wanted to work. I had no desire to work Women's ball and only did when I was asked. When I found out I needed to choose, I went to the Men's side only. You choose what you want to do as we are independent contractors. Some people might not have a choice, but most do. No one can tell you what you want to do when you leave your house. At that includes college basketball.

Peace

[CLH]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You can take it anyway you like, but most officials that work college ball make a choice of some kind what to pursue. That is especially true in the current camp season.

But a lot of Women's officials seem to want to justify their reasons for working that ball. I should know, as almost every small college game I work I hear a Women's official point out to me or someone (not prompted to make such a comment by anyone as well) and say, "We get the same money as you do." Then look at you like you are making some mistake working a Men's game. Well sorry, but I choose to work Men's basketball because that is what I always wanted to work. I had no desire to work Women's ball and only did when I was asked. When I found out I needed to choose, I went to the Men's side only. You choose what you want to do as we are independent contractors. Some people might not have a choice, but most do. No one can tell you what you want to do when you leave your house. At that includes college basketball.

Peace

You're right many of us do make choices. My choice was to not surround myself with the typical mentality that you are exhibiting; that mentality being that we who work women's ball are inferior to you. You are reminded of the pay in an effort to further remind you that your skill level is the same as mine. Clearly, if Men's officials were so much more skilled than the women's officials whom you choose to impune, then you would be compensated as such. I am only expecting the same respect I give others as a colleague and to not have my hard work, skill level and dedication impuned simply because my players have longer hair than yours....usually

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by CLH

You're right many of us do make choices. My choice was to not surround myself with the typical mentality that you are exhibiting; that mentality being that we who work women's ball are inferior to you. You are reminded of the pay in an effort to further remind you that your skill level is the same as mine. Clearly, if Men's officials were so much more skilled than the women's officials whom you choose to impune, then you would be compensated as such. I am only expecting the same respect I give others as a colleague and to not have my hard work, skill level and dedication impuned simply because my players have longer hair than yours....usually

From what I read on these boards a majority of the time it's an NCAA-W staffer who points to differences in mentality and/or philosophy between NCAA-W and NCAA-M. And in this thread in particular.

We're suppose to take your opinion as gospel but label JRut as arrogant for having his own?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by CLH

You're right many of us do make choices. My choice was to not surround myself with the typical mentality that you are exhibiting; that mentality being that we who work women's ball are inferior to you. You are reminded of the pay in an effort to further remind you that your skill level is the same as mine. Clearly, if Men's officials were so much more skilled than the women's officials whom you choose to impune, then you would be compensated as such. I am only expecting the same respect I give others as a colleague and to not have my hard work, skill level and dedication impuned simply because my players have longer hair than yours....usually

I do not like Women's college basketball. I do not watch it. I did not watch it before I became an official. I did not consider doing Women's or Girl's basketball before I was officiating.

And if you want respect, why do Women's officials feel the need to justify to Men's officials why they are working that level? And if you really want respect tell your fellow Women's officials when I go into the locker room after their game I do not get a lecture as to why they are having an easier time then the crew that is following them is having. And then saying things like “I am getting paid the same you are. WTH???

If you are satisfied with what you are doing, just work and shut up. It is the same with softball umpires that spend all their time trying to tell someone that works baseball that they are crazy for working a game that generally takes longer. I do not work softball because I did not play softball. I enjoy the many aspects of working baseball, which is why I am there instead of on a softball field over 50 times a year. And gender has nothing to do with it, I stopped working slow pitch softball too because I was bored. I work the games I want to work, not the game that gives me the bigger check.

Honestly I could give a damn what others do. If I wanted to work Women's basketball I could pay the same money to go work those games by attending those camps. I choose not to. It has nothing to do with being inferior; it has everything to do with choice. When Men's basketball officials sit around and talk officiating we do not talk about we are missing or why we are there.

I went to a camp to watch a good friend of mine work some games. I was there not as a camper but to watch her work as it was someone I was mentoring. She is a great official and I was interested in her craft. Well I ran into many officials I knew that also attended the camp and you would have thought there was in infomercial to work Women's basketball by all the comments those said to me about, "Come over to the Women's game...blah....blah....blah." If you are confident in what you are doing, why are you trying to tell me what to do? Even in a many conversations we have here many Women's official try to convince everyone that "The Women's mechanic or philosophy is so much better......" But I have the problem with looking down on the Women's game? If you enjoy what you are doing, you do not need to justify that to others who are not working it. That is a big problem with many (not all) Women's officials. It is getting old. Just work your games and go home. Stop trying to convince the rest of us to work those games.

Peace

[CLH]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

That is a big problem with many (not all) Women's officials. It is getting old. Just work your games and go home. Stop trying to convince the rest of us to work those games.

Peace

That's my whole point...just work your games. But don't go on message boards talking about how those of us on the women's side weren't good enough to work on the men's. I said no to the men's just like you said no to women's. I'm not trying to convince you to work anything and nowhere did I say that our way is right and yours is wrong. I am simply tired of the mentality that you are pushing that the only reason there are women's officials is because there has to be a place for those or us that aren't as good as Jrutledge and his crews. We are both necessary for our sports and we deserve the mutual respect from each other not to be talked about as if we are inferior, because I am far from it my friend.

End of rant

[TheOracle]

This is pretty funny. Officiating men's basketball is much more difficult because the game is a lot faster, period. For those who want to rip, women's officials are very good, but they would have a very tough time throttling up the RPMs during a men's game. Like a rusty NFL quarterback, you have to get used to the speed of the game. The same applies to the differences between levels of college, or between small college and HS or both genders.

For those men's officials that think they are superior, I have some news for you. NCAA-W is way ahead of NCAA-M in terms of being on the cutting edge of officiating philosophies, science, mechanics, and continuous improvement tools. The NBA pours a lot of resources into training and development. NCAA-W pays attention to the NBA, and incorporates a lot of new NBA stuff. It then flows to NCAA-M, and finally, after a long, long time, to the NFHS.

I've never officiated women's basektball, but I respect the heck out of the NCAA-W, their mechanics, and the way they do things. NCAA-M eventually copies them, just several years later.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by CLH

That's my whole point...just work your games. But don't go on message boards talking about how those of us on the women's side weren't good enough to work on the men's. I said no to the men's just like you said no to women's. I'm not trying to convince you to work anything and nowhere did I say that our way is right and yours is wrong. I am simply tired of the mentality that you are pushing that the only reason there are women's officials is because there has to be a place for those or us that aren't as good as Jrutledge and his crews. We are both necessary for our sports and we deserve the mutual respect from each other not to be talked about as if we are inferior, because I am far from it my friend.

End of rant

I was responding to a comment that suggested that there were egos at the Men's level that you do not have at the Women's level. I think I have a right to comment that in my experience that is not true or not any truer than any level of basketball. And in a recent thread there was a comment about how the Women's game handled the "Blarge" so much better and the word "ego" was apart of that discussion.

If you do not like the comments on this board you certainly do not have to read them. And you certainly do not have to read my comments. But I am a little tired of guys like you that are so willing to throw out what you do on the Women's side but then get so offended when those that work Men’s college comments about something. It sounds like you feel what you are doing is inferior. Then again I am not surprised, that is what officials that work Women's basketball seem to feel about that level too. Just saying.

Peace