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  #31 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 26, 2010, 05:07pm
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Originally Posted by TheOracle View Post
For those men's officials that think they are superior, I have some news for you. NCAA-W is way ahead of NCAA-M in terms of being on the cutting edge of officiating philosophies, science, mechanics, and continuous improvement tools. The NBA pours a lot of resources into training and development. NCAA-W pays attention to the NBA, and incorporates a lot of new NBA stuff. It then flows to NCAA-M, and finally, after a long, long time, to the NFHS.
You do realize that both NCAA Men's and NCAA Women's uses the same system to train their officials? You realize both use video and the same process to share information with their officials? Just because the NCAA-W has adopted some mechanics that the NBA uses, does not mean they are doing the same thing the NBA does to train their officials. Actually the NBA is in a class of their own on that front. They use video and break down tapes that the NCAA Men's and Women's ball has yet to do on that level. It is one thing to say one is better, it is quite another to not know what you are talking about. And it is clear you do not know what you are talking about.

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 26, 2010, 05:30pm
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Originally Posted by TheOracle View Post
NCAA-W is way ahead of NCAA-M in terms of being on the cutting edge of officiating philosophies, science, mechanics, and continuous improvement tools. The NBA pours a lot of resources into training and development. NCAA-W pays attention to the NBA, and incorporates a lot of new NBA stuff. It then flows to NCAA-M, and finally, after a long, long time, to the NFHS.
Gee, I guess that's why NBA officiating on the whole is regarded with such high esteem these days.

Personally, I hope it takes a helluva long time for some of those cutting edge NBA philosophies to filter down to the high school level. I really don't want to see high school players taking 4 steps without a whistle or kicking the snot out of an opponent and then whining and pouting like a little baby if someone has the audacity to call them with a foul.

Yup, the NBA certainly has got a lock on officiating philosophies, science, mechanics and continuous improvement tools. That's painfully evident if you are forced to actually watch one of their games from beginning to end. Hell, I'd be happy if I could only figure out whatinthehell a foul actually is in the NBA. But hey, maybe that'll filter down to me in another 50 years or so. I can only hope.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 26, 2010, 09:18pm
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Well I will justify my existence by saying that I don't have to justify my existence. So take THAT!! I work NCAA - W and enjoy it. I liked women's basketball before I started and like it even now. Maybe it goes back to college where the Men's and Women's team were real close and supported each other that I never got a "bad taste". It is different than the men's game, not better, not worse just different. There obviously are not the above the rim plays, but there are plays that Men's officials won't have to make b/c we have players who have to use something other than athleticism to accomplish the same tasks men's players do.
As for officials in general, I have friends on both sides. IME, I find that there is more emphasis on coming together as a crew (seen as lack of male organs by some) on the women's side than the mens. There are more than enough egos on the women's side to make life interesting. And enough crappy, promoted before they were ready officials on both sides as well. In short, I just like the women's side more. That doesn't make it better than the men's side, just what I enjoy. I do not begrudge anyone on the men's side for what they do, and if they disparage what I do, they are obviously trying to overcompensate for a lack of something!
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 27, 2010, 07:24am
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In my neck of the woods, we are scheduled a scrimmage and we are allowed to bring in those HS Officials that are looking to move to NCAA Officiating. Usually, its a small group of them, maybe two or three.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 27, 2010, 07:13pm
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Originally Posted by IREFU2 View Post
In my neck of the woods, we are scheduled a scrimmage and we are allowed to bring in those HS Officials that are looking to move to NCAA Officiating. Usually, its a small group of them, maybe two or three.
That is how it is here. You know an official or are seen by a college official/assignor and liked then you are invited to attend. For this scrimmage we have 4 guys counting myself.

Is there a rulebook that pertains to Womens NCAA or is it a overall rulebook that contains both genders??
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 27, 2010, 08:31pm
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Originally Posted by CDurham View Post
That is how it is here. You know an official or are seen by a college official/assignor and liked then you are invited to attend. For this scrimmage we have 4 guys counting myself.

Is there a rulebook that pertains to Womens NCAA or is it a overall rulebook that contains both genders??
One rule book, but some specific rules apply only to Men or Women
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 28, 2010, 08:24am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CDurham View Post
That is how it is here. You know an official or are seen by a college official/assignor and liked then you are invited to attend. For this scrimmage we have 4 guys counting myself.

Is there a rulebook that pertains to Womens NCAA or is it a overall rulebook that contains both genders??
For this scrimmage I would say the most important thing is to learn the NCAA-W coverage areas/mechanics and make sure you get those calls in your primary. Your crew chief will make sure everyone is applying all the rules correctly.
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Last edited by Raymond; Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 10:54am.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 28, 2010, 09:25am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CLH View Post
Interesting, one could assume that by this statement you believe those who can't hack it on the Men's side are banished to working womens. I work women's ball by choice sir, mainly because it keeps me away from the very egos you just illustrated by your assumption that NCAA-W are inferior to the men's officials.

Just an observation my friend....
I concur.....
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 28, 2010, 11:30am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
One rule book, but some specific rules apply only to Men or Women
The NCAA rule book is available as a free download and it has a pretty good rules differences chart in the back that covers the significant rules diffs not only between HS and NCAA, but also between NCAA-M and NCAA-W. I find it to be much more useful than the one in the back of the NFHS book.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 28, 2010, 12:47pm
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J Rut - I usually agree with you but.................

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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
You do realize that both NCAA Men's and NCAA Women's uses the same system to train their officials? You realize both use video and the same process to share information with their officials? Just because the NCAA-W has adopted some mechanics that the NBA uses, does not mean they are doing the same thing the NBA does to train their officials. Actually the NBA is in a class of their own on that front. They use video and break down tapes that the NCAA Men's and Women's ball has yet to do on that level. It is one thing to say one is better, it is quite another to not know what you are talking about. And it is clear you do not know what you are talking about.

Peace
I have to agree with Oracle on this one. There is a mentality especially in the NE that says you stay in your pond and I'll stay in in mine. I have a friend who is young and successful in the Women's DI game and he tells me all the time about how he thinks there is more commraderie in the women's game than the men's. There is no doubt that the men's game is more physical than the NBA because we don't call ABSOLUTES like they do in NCAA - W and the NBA.

I love being on the men's side and would never give it up, but I think that John Adams really wants to speed things up regarding our adoption of NBA philosphies.........
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 28, 2010, 01:32pm
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Originally Posted by Multiple Sports View Post
I have to agree with Oracle on this one. There is a mentality especially in the NE that says you stay in your pond and I'll stay in in mine. I have a friend who is young and successful in the Women's DI game and he tells me all the time about how he thinks there is more commraderie in the women's game than the men's. There is no doubt that the men's game is more physical than the NBA because we don't call ABSOLUTES like they do in NCAA - W and the NBA.

I love being on the men's side and would never give it up, but I think that John Adams really wants to speed things up regarding our adoption of NBA philosphies.........
What philosophy that is used that the NCAA Men's do not use? Reporting with two hands? Giving a "hit to the head" signal? That is the NBA philosophies you are talking about? Because you realize that the NCAA-M tape has been talking about Absolutes for a couple of years now? I used to attend NCAA-W camps and I never saw that concept on any tape when Marcy Weston was the coordinator or in the early years of Mary Struckoff.

And the camaraderie thing is very subjective. The vast majority of officials on the Men's side have been very helpful and very friendly. I have had the privilege to work with many guys that work the D1 level and they have treated me and others as equals on the floor. They know their role and that they are going to be looked to and they have been nothing but helpful. And I expect more egos at that level as there are more officials that have accomplished something. All I see on the Women's side is the same two or three working the big time games no matter where those games are in the country.
And when I go to camps and I deal with guys all over the country, those are good people. To act like Women's side as fewer egos is silly. I used to be in the room with some heavy hitters were at the NCAA clinics and those were people that felt unapproachable. I have not felt the same in the room with guys we have talked about here.

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  #42 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 28, 2010, 01:33pm
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Originally Posted by Multiple Sports View Post
There is a mentality especially in the NE that says you stay in your pond and I'll stay in in mine.
Oh? That's different than what some very highly respected officials(by me anyway) in that area have told me. The general consensus was that you could...and should... call out of your area if you saw a whale. You never should do so if you saw a minnow though. And that philosophy in my experience is pretty much standard across the country from officials in both the Mens and Womens sides.

I don't think that you can ever come up with a "one size fits all philosophy. The game is too fluid for that.

Last edited by Jurassic Referee; Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 01:35pm.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 28, 2010, 05:18pm
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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post

And I expect more egos at that level as there are more officials that have accomplished something. All I see on the Women's side is the same two or three working the big time games no matter where those games are in the country.
And when I go to camps and I deal with guys all over the country, those are good people. To act like Women's side as fewer egos is silly. Peace
JRUT, I will agree with you on a few things. The first being that you do seem to see the same officials working the Big Games. However, since they mostly seem to come from the region I am in, I can say "I knew them when!!!" But you also see, at least here in ACC country, and if memory serves the same was true in Big 10 country, the same officials working the men's side as well. Which begs the question, if these coaches are seeing the same officials alot during the season, how can they complain that the officials are inconsistent? ANYWHO...Yes, we have some ego's on the women's side. However, this is where men and women are different in their personality. It PROBABLY gets more 'catty' on this side than on the men's. And on the mens side you probably have more people trying to 'mark their space" That is just a general difference between men and women in general.
Also, we STILL go table side when calling fouls. We aren't big chickens and try to hide on the other side of the court and let our partners take the earful!!
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 28, 2010, 09:54pm
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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
....the Women's game handled the "Blarge" so much better.......

Gotta agree with this part.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 28, 2010, 11:53pm
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Originally Posted by Judtech View Post
JRUT, I will agree with you on a few things. The first being that you do seem to see the same officials working the Big Games. However, since they mostly seem to come from the region I am in, I can say "I knew them when!!!" But you also see, at least here in ACC country, and if memory serves the same was true in Big 10 country, the same officials working the men's side as well.
Not the same. I guy that works in the Big Ten is not likely to work in the ACC. A guy working in the Big East is not likely to work in the Big 12. Yes you see some of the same officials, but you see many more guys working in different regions. I can turn on the UConn-Tennessee game (I know they do not play anymore) and I can see the same official. Then when UConn plays Duke, the same official. then when Tennessee plays Rutgers, the same official. As much as people like to rag on guys like Steve Welmer or Hightower, they are not working in all those conferences and has their best game. More officials and apparently more guys are trusted to work on national TV.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Judtech View Post
Which begs the question, if these coaches are seeing the same officials alot during the season, how can they complain that the officials are inconsistent? ANYWHO...Yes, we have some ego's on the women's side. However, this is where men and women are different in their personality. It PROBABLY gets more 'catty' on this side than on the men's. And on the mens side you probably have more people trying to 'mark their space" That is just a general difference between men and women in general.
Any profession when you have successful people working together you are going to have clashes. I have never tried to say that there are not people that do not like each other. But to suggest that it is much more on the Men's side is kind of silly. I know a few people that work on the D1-W side and I can tell you stories about things that have circulated about officials not liking each other. Of course I am not going to do that, but some of the situations are much more drama than what happens on the Men's side. For one you have both women and men working together with all kinds of cliques involved. You do not have that on the Men's side. And I have personally worked with a lot of D1 guys on games and they have been extremely nice and they hardly ever make you feel like you do not belong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Judtech View Post
Also, we STILL go table side when calling fouls. We aren't big chickens and try to hide on the other side of the court and let our partners take the earful!!
The reason that was changed is that there were too many unnecessary conversations. It does not make much difference anyway, you still can say things to them. I could make a joke here but I will not.

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