7-6-6 stuff

[Scratch85]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Take the mistake out of the equation, and how would you answer this: A1 has a throw-in due to, say, a travel violation on B. A1 is holding the ball, when A2 commits a common foul, and B is not yet in the bonus. Who gets the throw-in, and why? Does it matter if A1 had not completed the throw-in?

I'll probably regret this but here goes.

I am in complete agreement with everyone about the intent of 7-6-6 and how we should apply it. But the way it is written is messing up my world.

To answer the question: "Does it matter if A1 had not completed the throw-in?" I didn't think so until they wrote 7-6-6. Now if the throw-in has not ended, I can still correct the mistake.

Here is the part I am going to regret. Even though it is not a CE as defined in 2-10 it is an error that we are able to correct if it is done within the time frame stated in 7-6-6. In the CE's there are situations where activity shall be cancelled and situations where activity shall not be nullified. I understand this is not a CE and the CE rules will not apply but there is precedent for cancelling activity that occurs during a mistake that we are allowed, by rule, to correct. Now that 7-6-6 is in the book, using specific language of when a throw-in ends, it has muddied the waters for me.

What rules would we have applied to this situation before 7-6-6 was written? Or is it just the lack of rules for this situation that would have rendered our ruling? Prior to 7-6-6 what rule allowed us to stop play, ending the throw-in and award the ball to the correct team?

[Jurassic Referee]

Upon further review, ol' JR was full of shiznit....

Case Book Play 6.4.1 SITUATION D:
It is team B's turn for the next throw-in under the alternating-possession procedure. By mistake, team A is given the throw-in. Team A...releases the ball on the alternating-possession throw-in, but before the ball is legally touched in-bounds, Team A or team B commits a foul.
RULING The alternating-possession throw-in did not end when the foul occurred. Therefore, the alternating-possession mistake is corrected and the arrow now favors team B; penalize the foul appropriately. (4-42-5; 6-4-4; 6-4-5)

Good question.

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Upon further review, ol' JR was full of shiznit....

Case Book Play 6.4.1 SITUATION D:
It is team B's turn for the next throw-in under the alternating-possession procedure. By mistake, team A is given the throw-in. Team A...releases the ball on the alternating-possession throw-in, but before the ball is legally touched in-bounds, Team A or team B commits a foul.
RULING The alternating-possession throw-in did not end when the foul occurred. Therefore, the alternating-possession mistake is corrected and the arrow now favors team B; penalize the foul appropriately. (4-42-5; 6-4-4; 6-4-5)

Good question.

Ok. However, as it states we are still going to penalize the foul, which results in a new throw-in. You're not going to ignore the foul and go back to correct the AP throw-in. I would say this is an exception.

I know the throw-in hasn't "ended". But, it has as it's trumped by the newly awarded throw-in due to the foul/violation.

Bottom line... don't make a mistake and give the wrong team the throw-in.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by tjones1

Ok. However, as it states we are still going to penalize the foul, which results in a new throw-in. You're not going to ignore the foul and go back to correct the AP throw-in. I would say this is an exception.

I know the throw-in hasn't "ended". But, it has as it's trumped by the newly awarded throw-in due to the foul/violation.

Bottom line... don't make a mistake and give the wrong team the throw-in.

You do correct the AP throw-in mistake though at the same time you penalize the foul. The new throw-in may be for the foul, not an AP throw-in. If not, you got FT's to administer.

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You do correct the AP throw-in mistake though at the same time you penalize the foul. The new throw-in may be for the foul, not an AP throw-in. If not, you got FT's to administer.

I agree and this seems to be the exception where you can do both.

Otherwise, someone is SOL and you're moving on administering the foul accordingly.

The only real way to correct your mistake is if there was a double foul on an AP throw-in. That'd be a fun explanation.

Ahhhh, it's good to be back talking basketball again!

[tjchamp]

So here we go again. Should the next throw-in in that situation be an AP throw-in, or a regular throw-in due to the foul. The case play just seems to indicate the arrow gets pointed to B for use on the next AP.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by tjchamp

So here we go again. Should the next throw-in in that situation be an AP throw-in, or a regular throw-in due to the foul. The case play just seems to indicate the arrow gets pointed to B for use on the next AP.

You correct the arrow AND penalize the foul. If the penalty for the foul is either a throw-in or free throws, then the corrected arrow doesn't change.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Upon further review, ol' JR was full of shiznit....

Case Book Play 6.4.1 SITUATION D:
It is team B's turn for the next throw-in under the alternating-possession procedure. By mistake, team A is given the throw-in. Team A...releases the ball on the alternating-possession throw-in, but before the ball is legally touched in-bounds, Team A or team B commits a foul.
RULING The alternating-possession throw-in did not end when the foul occurred. Therefore, the alternating-possession mistake is corrected and the arrow now favors team B; penalize the foul appropriately. (4-42-5; 6-4-4; 6-4-5)

Good question.

All this case play points out is the AP throw-in was never completed, so the arrow remains where it was, or should have been, which was pointing to B. If A commits a foul, B will have the resulting throw-in because of the foul. If B committed the foul, A would have the throw-in as a result of the penalty from the foul. The AP throw-in effectively never happened; it doesn't matter that A was the one that threw it in, B will still get the next AP throw-in.

I'm not sure how this applies to the original question. The foul was not canceled as a result of the correction. The throw-in itself was not "corrected", as the foul stands and any subsequent throw-in is a result of the foul. The only thing being "corrected" is to make sure the arrow remains with B, because the throw-in was never completed, and it will affect a future throw-in. In the original question, there's nothing more to correct, as that "generic" throw-in is over.

[Scratch85]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

In the original question, there's nothing more to correct, as that "generic" throw-in is over.

I agree. I wish 7-6-6 read "over" instead of "ends."

Originally Posted by Scratch85

What rules would we have applied to this situation before 7-6-6 was written? Or is it just the lack of rules for this situation that would have rendered our ruling? Prior to 7-6-6 what rule allowed us to stop play, ending the throw-in and award the ball to the correct team?

If someone can help me with these questions, I think I can get my brain unwrinkled about 7-6-6.

[Scratch85]

An officer of our local official's association reported that he had exchanged e-mails with NFHS concerning 7-6-6. This is basically what he reported:

Sitch: Team A is erroneously awarded a throw-in. Team B fouls during the throw-in. Team A is in the double bonus.

NFHS Ruling: Team A shoots the double bonus with the lane cleared. Rectify the mistake.

In rectifying the mistake, would we award the (rectified) throw-in at the original spot as in 4-36-2(b) or would we award the throw-in as in 7-5? Same question if team A was not in the bonus. Award the (rectified) throw-in at the original spot or spot throw-in as in 7-5-4(a)?

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by Scratch85

An officer of our association reported that he had exchanged e-mails with NFHS concerning 7-6-6. This is basically what he reported:

Sitch: Team A is erroneously awarded a throw-in. Team B fouls during the throw-in. Team A is in the double bonus.

NFHS Ruling: Team A shoots the double bonus with the lane cleared. Rectify the mistake.

In rectifying the mistake, would we award the (rectified) throw-in at the original spot as in 4-36-2(b) or would we award the throw-in as in 7-5? Same question if team A was not in the bonus. Award the (rectified) throw-in at the original spot or spot throw-in as in 7-5-4(a)?

I would love to see this ruling come out in a memo. hmmm

-Josh

[tref]

Originally Posted by Scratch85

An officer of our local official's association reported that he had exchanged e-mails with NFHS concerning 7-6-6. This is basically what he reported:

Sitch: Team A is erroneously awarded a throw-in. Team B fouls during the throw-in. Team A is in the double bonus.

NFHS Ruling: Team A shoots the double bonus with the lane cleared. Rectify the mistake.

In rectifying the mistake, would we award the (rectified) throw-in at the original spot as in 4-36-2(b) or would we award the throw-in as in 7-5? Same question if team A was not in the bonus. Award the (rectified) throw-in at the original spot or spot throw-in as in 7-5-4(a)?

I'd like to see that in writing! Sounds like a CE.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by tref

I'd like to see that in writing!

If you want to see it in writing, read NFHS case book play 6.4.1SitD(b) and rule 4-36-2(b). Collectively they cover the situation.

[tref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

If you want to see it in writing, read NFHS case book play 6.4.1SitD(b) and rule 4-36-2(b). Collectively they cover the situation.

Yup, just read it! On one hand its good to know, on the other hand just dont give the wrong team the ball!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Scratch85

An officer of our local official's association reported that he had exchanged e-mails with NFHS concerning 7-6-6. This is basically what he reported:

Sitch: Team A is erroneously awarded a throw-in. Team B fouls during the throw-in. Team A is in the double bonus.

NFHS Ruling: Team A shoots the double bonus with the lane cleared. Rectify the mistake.

In rectifying the mistake, would we award the (rectified) throw-in at the original spot as in 4-36-2(b) or would we award the throw-in as in 7-5? Same question if team A was not in the bonus. Award the (rectified) throw-in at the original spot or spot throw-in as in 7-5-4(a)?

Otherwise known as NFHS case book play 6.4.1SitD(b), as cited above....

The applicable rule is NFHS rule 4-36-2(b). You had a foul occur before an AP throw-in ended. Penalize the foul and then resume play at the original AP throw-in spot, but correct the AP mistake and give the AP throw-in to team B.