Goaltending vs Basket Interference

[hoopsaddict]

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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by hoopsaddict

Ball is shot by A1 and bounces up on the rim, B1 grabs the ball which is above the rim and in the imaginary cylinder of the rim and in my opinion still has a chance to go in.

My second question is that in the rule book there is actually no signal to signal a goaltend or basket interference so what would the correct way be to go about making this call on either of these plays?

A player cannot touch the ball, ring, or net while the ball is on the ring or within the basket. A player cannot touch the ball if it is in the imaginary cylinder above the ring. These are examples of basket interference. It is legal to touch the ring or the net if the ball is above the ring and not touching the ring, even if the ball is in the imaginary cylinder above the ring.

I've heard interpreters state that one of the unlisted attributes of goaltending is that the ball is outside the cylinder (along with try or tap, downward flight, above the basket ring level, and possibility of entering the basket).

Offensive basket interference or offensive goaltending: Signal # 13: No score.

Defensive basket interference or defensive goaltending: Signal # 14: Goal counts.

[deecee]

You can send your assignor the rulebook with the rule highlighted.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

A player cannot touch the ball, ring, or net while the ball is on the ring or within the basket. A player cannot touch the ball if it is in the imaginary cylinder above the ring. These are examples of basket interference. It is legal to touch the ring or the net if the ball is above the ring and not touching the ring, even if the ball is in the imaginary cylinder above the ring.

I've heard interpreters state that one of the unlisted attributes of goaltending is that the ball is outside the cylinder (along with try or tap, downward flight, above the basket ring level, and possibility of entering the basket).

Offensive basket interference or offensive goaltending: Signal # 13: No score.

Defensive basket interference or defensive goaltending: Signal # 14: Goal counts.

This post by BillyMac written very clearly and is 100% correct.
It should clarify this for you, and your assignor too!

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Offensive basket interference or offensive goaltending: Signal # 13: No score.

Defensive basket interference or defensive goaltending: Signal # 14: Goal counts.

That reminds me. Has anyone here had to make an offensive goaltending call? I can see offensive B.I. happening (an intended rebound), but is there any reason to block a shot of your teammate?

[Anchor]

Originally Posted by bainsey

That reminds me. Has anyone here had to make an offensive goaltending call? I can see offensive B.I. happening (an intended rebound), but is there any reason to block a shot of your teammate?

Never made the call, but observed one where, if there ever was an opportunity to call it, it should have been.

I had the next game in a tournament, so arrived early to catch a little of the ongoing game, standing at the far end line. An alley oop pass from the corner that was well defended came in. However, the pass was long and looked more like a shot--it was clearly above the rim, on its downward arc, and would have at least hit the top side of the rim (whether back iron, far side of the hoop, near side of the hoop, or gone in is anybody's guess). Defender and offensive player, both near the rim, jump (both had height and hops) for the ball. Defender recognizes that his touch will be goal-tending, and he pulls his hands back, leaving the offensive player the liberty to catch the ball un-obstructed and jam it, which he does.

I called the play into one of the officiating hotlines and asked if there was ever a time that offensive goaltending should be called, and gave them the scenario. The consensus was, while the rules allowed it, it should not have been or be called.

In this one particular scenario the offense clearly got an advantage as the defense could not defend. Maybe the ball would have gone in anyway; maybe it would have bounced off to the far side of the rim for a rebound. What did happen was a fairly easy goal in a close game that disallowed the defense from defending.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by bainsey

That reminds me. Has anyone here had to make an offensive goaltending call?

Yeah - I had one in a 3rd grade rec game last season.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Anchor

An alley oop pass from the corner that was well defended came in. However, the pass was long and looked more like a shot--it was clearly above the rim, on its downward arc, and would have at least hit the top side of the rim (whether back iron, far side of the hoop, near side of the hoop, or gone in is anybody's guess).

That is NOT goaltending. Goaltending can only occur on a try. Since it was judged to be a pass, it was fair game for both players. It doesn't matter that it was on its downward flight, above the rim, or if it had a chance to go in or not. (The players have to be careful though...they can't read the minds of the referee and will not know if it is being ruled a pass or try).

The only call that can happen on a pass is basket interference....where the ball is alreay over basket (in the cylinder).

[Anchor]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

That is NOT goaltending. Goaltending can only occur on a try. Since it was judged to be a pass, it was fair game for both players. It doesn't matter that it was on its downward flight, above the rim, or if it had a chance to go in or not. (The players have to be careful though...they can't read the minds of the referee and will not know if it is being ruled a pass or try).

The only call that can happen on a pass is basket interference....where the ball is alreay over basket (in the cylinder).

I can promise you that the "pass" was such that, if the offense had not jumped for the ball and the defense had caught it there would have been a young war from the offensive bench.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Anchor

I can promise you that the "pass" was such that, if the offense had not jumped for the ball and the defense had caught it there would have been a young war from the offensive bench.

What's that got to do with you making the correct call or not?

As Camron said, by rule you can't call it goaltending if it you deemed it to be a pass instead of a try. You can't make a wrong call deliberately to avoid a "young war" just because the "offensive bench" doesn't know or understand the rules.

[Anchor]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

What's that got to do with you making the correct call or not?

As Camron said, by rule you can't call it goaltending if it you deemed it to be a pass instead of a try. You can't make a wrong call deliberately to avoid a "young war" just because the "offensive bench" doesn't know or understand the rules.

Nobody made any call. Just an observation.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Anchor

Nobody made any call. Just an observation.

Maybe no one made a call but you (and someone on some "hotline") incorrectly made the assertion that it should have been GT....but it can't be GT if it was released as a pass

And this flies in the face of another ruling that says we can't/don't judge pass/try if a ball thrown from behind the 3-point line goes in....it counts as 3. Yet, there remains several other situations where we must do exactly that.

[eyezen]

Originally Posted by Anchor

Never made the call, but observed one where, if there ever was an opportunity to call it, it should have been.

I had the next game in a tournament, so arrived early to catch a little of the ongoing game, standing at the far end line. An alley oop pass from the corner that was well defended came in. However, the pass was long and looked more like a shot--it was clearly above the rim, on its downward arc, and would have at least hit the top side of the rim (whether back iron, far side of the hoop, near side of the hoop, or gone in is anybody's guess). Defender and offensive player, both near the rim, jump (both had height and hops) for the ball. Defender recognizes that his touch will be goal-tending, and he pulls his hands back, leaving the offensive player the liberty to catch the ball un-obstructed and jam it, which he does.

I called the play into one of the officiating hotlines and asked if there was ever a time that offensive goaltending should be called, and gave them the scenario. The consensus was, while the rules allowed it, it should not have been or be called.

In this one particular scenario the offense clearly got an advantage as the defense could not defend. Maybe the ball would have gone in anyway; maybe it would have bounced off to the far side of the rim for a rebound. What did happen was a fairly easy goal in a close game that disallowed the defense from defending.

WTF??? please elaborate.

[Anchor]

Originally Posted by eyezen

WTF??? please elaborate.

It was some time ago. There's really nothing to elaborate on. The rule states "goaltending occurs when a player touches the ball...in its downward flight....[etc.]." It does not delineate between offense and defense (as it does for a FT). However, I guess the officiating guru[s] at whatever hotline it was could not envision a scenario where it should be called. Hence, their advice--"don't call it!"

[eyezen]

Originally Posted by Anchor

"However, I guess the officiating guru[s] at whatever hotline "

This is what I'm asking about..."whatever hotline"? Seriously? And there's more than one?