jump stop...travelling call???

[wanja]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

These two rules are NOT talking about the same situation

Let's label the actions that are occuring as follows:

A = Airborne
C = Catch the ball
O = Landing on and Jumping from one foot
T = Land on two feet
P = Pivot

Good catch and interesting approach. NFHS 4-44-2b (see below) is a closer but not exact match to the cited NCAA wording. Using your approach what do you have comparing these 2?

In the NFHS rules, any reference to a pivot foot after jumping off one foot and landing on 2 says it is not allowed. Unlike the NCAA rule, there is no reference that says it is allowed. I'll try to run this up the flag through my state interpreter to see if we can get a definitive NFHS clarification. Here is how I would pose the question:

Under NFHS rules, is there any circumstance that a player in control of the ball can jump off one foot, land on two and have a pivot foot available?

--------------------------
NFHS Rule 4
Section 44. Traveling
Article 2. A player who catches the ball while moving or dribbling, may stop and establish a pivot foot as follows

b. If one foot is on the floor:

2. The player may jump off that foot and simultaneously land on both. Neither foot can be a pivot in that case.


NCAA Rule 4
Section 44. Jump Stop
A jump stop may also be executed when the dribbler has one foot on the playing court, initiates a jump off that foot, ends the dribble with both feet off the playing court and lands simultaneously on both feet (either foot can be established as the pivot foot).

[APG]

Is there really this much discussion about the jump stop? The rule seems real clear to me:

1.) If a player catches the ball/ends the dribble with a foot on the ground, jumps, and lands on both feet, then the player can't pivot.

2.) If jumps off of one foot, catches the ball/ends the dribble, then lands on both feet, either foot can be the pivot foot.

Coaches and players refer to both as a jump stop and the NCAA rule defines both as such. It has been my experience that you see play 2 done more, especially off the dribble.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by wanja

Good catch and interesting approach. NFHS 4-44-2b (see below) is a closer but not exact match to the cited NCAA wording. Using your approach what do you have comparing these 2?

In the NFHS rules, any reference to a pivot foot after jumping off one foot and landing on 2 says it is not allowed. Unlike the NCAA rule, there is no reference that says it is allowed. I'll try to run this up the flag through my state interpreter to see if we can get a definitive NFHS clarification. Here is how I would pose the question:

Under NFHS rules, is there any circumstance that a player in control of the ball can jump off one foot, land on two and have a pivot foot available?

--------------------------
NFHS Rule 4
Section 44. Traveling
Article 2. A player who catches the ball while moving or dribbling, may stop and establish a pivot foot as follows

b. If one foot is on the floor:

2. The player may jump off that foot and simultaneously land on both. Neither foot can be a pivot in that case.


NCAA Rule 4
Section 44. Jump Stop
A jump stop may also be executed when the dribbler has one foot on the playing court, initiates a jump off that foot, ends the dribble with both feet off the playing court and lands simultaneously on both feet (either foot can be established as the pivot foot).

In the NFHS rule you quote, the player has ended his dribble with one foot on the floor. It's the same as the first part of the NCAA rule you've quoted so many times.

In the second part of the NCAA rule you have above, the dribble does not end with one foot on the floor.

You're trying to compare apples and oranges.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by wanja

Under NFHS rules, is there any circumstance that a player in control of the ball can jump off one foot, land on two and have a pivot foot available?

Yes, if he ends his dribble while airborne, the same as the NCAA rule.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by wanja

1) NFHS Rule 4
Section 44. Traveling
Article 2. A player who catches the ball while moving or dribbling, may stop and establish a pivot foot as follows:
b. If one foot is on the floor:
2. The player may jump off that foot and simultaneously land on both. Neither foot can be a pivot in that case.


2) NCAA Rule 4
Section 44. Jump Stop
A jump stop may also be executed when the dribbler has one foot on the playing court, initiates a jump off that foot, ends the dribble with both feet off the playing court and lands simultaneously on both feet (either foot can be established as the pivot foot)

And you're still missing the point!!!!!!

In #1 (NFHS rule 4-44-2(b)2 that you cited above), The player caught the ball(ended their dribble) with one foot ON the floor.

In #2 above( NCAA rule 4-44(jump stop), the player caught the ball and ended their dribble with both feet OFF the court.

These are two completely different and disparate acts, and both rulesets treat them as such. And both rulesets are exactly the same when it comes to determination of the pivot foot for #1 and #2. You're trying to compare 2 acts that aren't comparable. And that's why you're confusing the hell outa everybody.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by wanja

Good catch and interesting approach. NFHS 4-44-2b (see below) is a closer but not exact match to the cited NCAA wording. Using your approach what do you have comparing these 2?

In the NFHS rules, any reference to a pivot foot after jumping off one foot and landing on 2 says it is not allowed. Unlike the NCAA rule, there is no reference that says it is allowed.

Correct...

....but all references in the NFHS book are preceded with "A1 catches the ball then..." The NFHS assumption is that until the time A1 catches the ball, what happened before doesn't really matter.

...and the NCAA reference being discussed states that A1 jumps from one foot, then catches the ball. It doesn't really matter that it is form one foot. A player can also jump from two feet, then catch the ball, land on two feet simultaneously, and pivot with either foot.

Originally Posted by wanja

I'll try to run this up the flag through my state interpreter to see if we can get a definitive NFHS clarification. Here is how I would pose the question:

Under NFHS rules, is there any circumstance that a player in control of the ball can jump off one foot, land on two and have a pivot foot available?

A player who hasn't caught the ball yet can jump off of one (or even two feet) without restriction. That is all the NCAA rule is saying. The NFHS rule is the same but it is not so explicitly spelled out.