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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 05, 2007, 03:07pm
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Jump stop

In a 2A varsity Boys game, I was trail in the front court. The nimble point guard had driven the lane all night, but passed off everytime, not ever taking a shot. The opposing team had set up in a 2 three zone. This time the point drove the lane, jumped off the pivot with a long stride as if to shoot, tucked it back in, landed on both feet. Jumped again and made the shot. I have to admit, it looked really weird. It developed really slow, strange, but absolutely, legal. I'm sure you've seen these type plays. Lead waves off the basket and calls the travel. Opposing team coach, is hollering travel. I retreat to the division line for the throw in. Point guard sets up next to me, looks over and says, what was illegal about what I did. I pause, look away to the baseline. Look back at him and say, "Ask the official down there, what he saw". I understand we are partners in this game, but sometimes, you have to let the other guy stand on his own whistle. I'll back my co-official all the way, but when I honestly don't have the answer, Its best to say nothing and refer questions to the calling official.
The only time I get involved in a call is if I am with a green official and he needs help. If a coach is biting his or her ear off, I'll go over and try to diffuse the situation and encourage the official. A bad call is just that. Get the ball back in play.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 05, 2007, 03:10pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texaspaul
In a 2A varsity Boys game, I was trail in the front court. The nimble point guard had driven the lane all night, but passed off everytime, not ever taking a shot. The opposing team had set up in a 2 three zone. This time the point drove the lane, jumped off the pivot with a long stride as if to shoot, tucked it back in, landed on both feet. Jumped again and made the shot. I have to admit, it looked really weird. It developed really slow, strange, but absolutely, legal. I'm sure you've seen these type plays. Lead waves off the basket and calls the travel. Opposing team coach, is hollering travel. I retreat to the division line for the throw in. Point guard sets up next to me, looks over and says, what was illegal about what I did. I pause, look away to the baseline. Look back at him and say, "Ask the official down there, what he saw". I understand we are partners in this game, but sometimes, you have to let the other guy stand on his own whistle. I'll back my co-official all the way, but when I honestly don't have the answer, Its best to say nothing and refer questions to the calling official.
The only time I get involved in a call is if I am with a green official and he needs help. If a coach is biting his or her ear off, I'll go over and try to diffuse the situation and encourage the official. A bad call is just that. Get the ball back in play.
I think you handled it perfectly....better to do that than try to make something up...incidentally I HATE when I see a good play like this called a travel....
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Old Wed Dec 05, 2007, 03:19pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texaspaul
This time the point drove the lane, jumped off the pivot with a long stride as if to shoot, tucked it back in, landed on both feet.
If the player jumped off the pivot, he has to pass or shoot before landing. He didn't. Therefore he traveled. Good call by your partner.

Rule 4-44-3(b)- "After coming to a stop and establishing a pivot foot, if a player jumps, neither foot may be returned to the floor before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal."
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Old Wed Dec 05, 2007, 03:20pm
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Yeah, this is an issue with me too. Watching an unusual call by a partner then having a player or coach ask me what I saw. I don't want to hang a partner out to dry but I don't want to be dishonest about what I saw if I disagreed with the call. Most of the time I do what you said, ask him/her what they saw. I suppose you can say "from my angle, I might have seen it differently" but that might invite trouble as well.
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Old Wed Dec 05, 2007, 03:22pm
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Originally Posted by kbilla
I think you handled it perfectly....better to do that than try to make something up...incidentally I HATE when I see a good play like this called a travel....
You hate seeing an official make the right call?
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Old Wed Dec 05, 2007, 03:26pm
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Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
If the player jumped off the pivot, he has to pass or shoot before landing. He didn't. Therefore he traveled. Good call by your partner.

Rule 4-44-3(b)- "After coming to a stop and establishing a pivot foot, if a player jumps, neither foot may be returned to the floor before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal."
Rule 4-44-2 A player who catches the ball while moving or dribbling, may stop, and establish a pivot foot as follows:
(b) If one foot is on the floor:
(2) The player may jump off that foot and simultaneously land on both. Neither foot can be a pivot in this case.


The play sounds legal to me, but the description of the pivot foot is incorrect - the player never had a pivot foot.
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Old Wed Dec 05, 2007, 03:29pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdw3018
Rule 4-44-2 A player who catches the ball while moving or dribbling, may stop, and establish a pivot foot as follows:
(b) If one foot is on the floor:
(2) The player may jump off that foot and simultaneously land on both. Neither foot can be a pivot in this case.


The play sounds legal to me, but the description of the pivot foot is incorrect - the player never had a pivot foot.
There we go, I was a bit confused and had this same play two nights ago (neither of us called anything, which was correct). No pivot established in the first place.
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Old Wed Dec 05, 2007, 03:31pm
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JD you are correct. My explanation was faulty.
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Old Wed Dec 05, 2007, 03:31pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
If the player jumped off the pivot, he has to pass or shoot before landing. He didn't. Therefore he traveled. Good call by your partner.

Rule 4-44-3(b)- "After coming to a stop and establishing a pivot foot, if a player jumps, neither foot may be returned to the floor before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal."
You are correct by rule JR, I didn't read it that closely - but I think the he misspoke and didn't mean to say he jumped "off the pivot"...I think you can picture the play he is referring to, as he is gathering the ball, he jumps off one foot and lands on two, therefore he does not have a pivot, but can jump off both and pass or shoot...

Last edited by kbilla; Wed Dec 05, 2007 at 03:35pm.
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Old Wed Dec 05, 2007, 03:32pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
You hate seeing an official make the right call?
Quit it already you're killing me!
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 05, 2007, 03:35pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rizzo21
I suppose you can say "from my angle, I might have seen it differently" but that might invite trouble as well.
I would never say this. I'd simply say, "Coach, my partner had the angle on it you'll have to ask him." I wouldn't imply I saw something different, just that I didn't have the angle to get the call.
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Old Wed Dec 05, 2007, 03:46pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdw3018
I would never say this. I'd simply say, "Coach, my partner had the angle on it you'll have to ask him." I wouldn't imply I saw something different, just that I didn't have the angle to get the call.
Yeah, that seems a good way to say it. I'm going to make a note of it.
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Old Wed Dec 05, 2007, 03:54pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdw3018
Rule 4-44-2 A player who catches the ball while moving or dribbling, may stop, and establish a pivot foot as follows:
(b) If one foot is on the floor:
(2) The player may jump off that foot and simultaneously land on both. Neither foot can be a pivot in this case.


The play sounds legal to me, but the description of the pivot foot is incorrect - the player never had a pivot foot.
Unfortunately, the original post said that the shooter did have a pivot foot. We can only give answers to what is given to us. And what was given to us was an obvious travel.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 05, 2007, 03:58pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbilla
You are correct by rule JR, I didn't read it that closely - but I think the he misspoke and didn't mean to say he jumped "off the pivot"...I think you can picture the play he is referring to, as he is gathering the ball, he jumps off one foot and lands on two, therefore he does not have a pivot, but can jump off both and pass or shoot...
That's cool if he misspoke. But we can only answer on what we're given.

Every time I try to read somebody's mind, I invariably screw it up.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 05, 2007, 04:18pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Unfortunately, the original post said that the shooter did have a pivot foot. We can only give answers to what is given to us. And what was given to us was an obvious travel.
Fair enough, though I prefer to probe when it's not clear. And I inferred from his post that he was talking about a legal jump stop.
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