The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 24, 2010, 10:29am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by refnuts View Post
Coach of B wasn't happy but understood and agreed with the call.
Had you passed on the foul because you didn't see the contact, the coach of A likely wouldn't have been happy. Best to hold your whistle unless you directly observe the contact.
__________________
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

Last edited by SWMOzebra; Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 10:46am.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 24, 2010, 11:07am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 547
as I have worked w/ officials from higher levels (D1 and NBA) this season, it's been interesting to watch them only blow the whistle when they see the foul/violation. your call accuracy goes up when you only "call what you see". much better to blow when you know what happened rather than to guess (of course, you may guess right sometimes - but they don't pay us to be right "sometimes")....
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 24, 2010, 01:00pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 89
Was this two person or three person?
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 24, 2010, 01:26pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 302
If you don't see it, you can't call it.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 24, 2010, 01:28pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 13
Partners input

It was 2 person. Partner saw the contact but was not blowing a foul right in front of me.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 24, 2010, 01:36pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by refnuts View Post
It was 2 person. Partner saw the contact but was not blowing a foul right in front of me.
So you guessed right.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 24, 2010, 01:45pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New York City
Posts: 322
I think the title of this thread should be "Not Guessing" instead of "Patient Whistle" because they two different topics :-)
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 24, 2010, 03:58pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by refnuts View Post
It was 2 person. Partner saw the contact but was not blowing a foul right in front of me.
Sounds like your partner should've called it with a patient whistle. If you see something in your partner's primary, wait a beat for them to call it and, using that time, figure out if they didn't have the best angle for some reason (straightlined etc.). If so, blow your whistle and save your partner.

I had a play a few weeks ago where I was caught out of position and would have liked the help. I was new trail in 2-whistle. A1 made an unexpected attempt to blow by B1 just passed midcourt, and I got stuck behind the play. B1 tried to get in front of A1 but never obtained LGP, contact (which I couldn't see) occurs, A1 stumbles and B1 falls to the floor. I waited a beat, decided a foul had definitely occurred even if I didn't see the actual contact and blew my whistle and put my fist up. I waited another beat to replay it in my head and then signaled a block, and almost everyone in the gym starts screaming that it was a stiff arm. I realize that, if it was, I'd had the absolute worst angle on the play and call my partner over.
"Did you see the contact?"
"Oh yeah. Blatant stiff arm."
I signal a PC foul. Team A coach wasn't happy, but that was mainly because he lost his best player to a fifth foul in a close game. Afterwards, I told my partner exactly what I said in the first paragraph.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 24, 2010, 04:22pm
APG APG is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,889
Quote:
Originally Posted by shutupneff View Post

I had a play a few weeks ago where I was caught out of position and would have liked the help. I was new trail in 2-whistle. A1 made an unexpected attempt to blow by B1 just passed midcourt, and I got stuck behind the play. B1 tried to get in front of A1 but never obtained LGP, contact (which I couldn't see) occurs, A1 stumbles and B1 falls to the floor. I waited a beat, decided a foul had definitely occurred even if I didn't see the actual contact and blew my whistle and put my fist up. I waited another beat to replay it in my head and then signaled a block, and almost everyone in the gym starts screaming that it was a stiff arm. I realize that, if it was, I'd had the absolute worst angle on the play and call my partner over.
"Did you see the contact?"
"Oh yeah. Blatant stiff arm."
I signal a PC foul. Team A coach wasn't happy, but that was mainly because he lost his best player to a fifth foul in a close game. Afterwards, I told my partner exactly what I said in the first paragraph.
I'm not sure if I'm going to go to my partner in this situation. Especially after I've come out with a preliminary. What's to stop the coach from asking you to go to your partner and change any of your judgment calls after you've already set precedent to do so?
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 24, 2010, 03:28pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 600
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffpea View Post
as I have worked w/ officials from higher levels (D1 and NBA) this season, it's been interesting to watch them only blow the whistle when they see the foul/violation. your call accuracy goes up when you only "call what you see". much better to blow when you know what happened rather than to guess (of course, you may guess right sometimes - but they don't pay us to be right "sometimes")....
Im sure there will be plenty on here who might disagree with this and some who might:

Sometimes you can use visual cues to "aid" your playcalling, i.e., a player who jumps off both feet is a lot less likely to have illegal trajectory than a player who jumps off of one foot. A hit to the face is something that you absolutely can't miss. It can cause the player who got hit to not only be mad at you bc you missed what he/she knows is an obvious foul but also it gives that player more cause to retaliate later on seeking "justice" for what you did not call. I believe hits to the face spark more rage by the involved player than any other missed call in basketball. The player reacting as she did to the swing is a strong visual cue that she was indeed hit. I don't know many players at the college level and below who fake getting hit in the face, nose, etc. It happens a good amount at the pro level because these guys are masters at fool the ref type plays, but amateur athletes, I have come to find out, rarely, if ever fake getting hit in the face. If you are watching the whole play and see the swing and the reaction, but somehow don't absolutely see the exact time of contact, I believe you are still justified in using the visual cue and Basketball IQ to whistle this a foul.

and btw, jurassic it is good to see you back on the forum. I don't know where you went but its been too long.
__________________
"players must decide the outcome of the game with legal actions, not illegal actions which an official chooses to ignore."
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 24, 2010, 04:00pm
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hell
Posts: 20,211
Quote:
Originally Posted by btaylor64 View Post

and btw, jurassic it is good to see you back on the forum. I don't know where you went but its been too long.
Thanks for the "welcome back", Ben. Appreciated.

And here's something that you might find interesting.....

Top Israel basketball coach questioned in tax evasion case - Haaretz - Israel News
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 24, 2010, 05:52pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 600
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee View Post
Thanks for the "welcome back", Ben. Appreciated.

And here's something that you might find interesting.....

Top Israel basketball coach questioned in tax evasion case - Haaretz - Israel News
Hahaha!! Way too funny. I have no idea what u r talkin about. That guy and I are best friends. Besides all the cussing he directed at me we are cool. Haha
__________________
"players must decide the outcome of the game with legal actions, not illegal actions which an official chooses to ignore."
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 24, 2010, 05:56pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Might want to cut him some slack, Ben. Looks like he was under a bit of pressure.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How patient is too patient? FrankHtown Basketball 37 Fri Jan 05, 2007 09:50am
more patient? chrs_schuster Basketball 31 Mon Jan 01, 2007 03:40am
Patient Whistle jforgues Basketball 42 Fri Jul 22, 2005 01:46pm
Patient Whistle FrankHtown Basketball 22 Fri Dec 10, 2004 12:16pm
Patient Whistle FrankHtown Basketball 8 Tue Jul 27, 2004 03:44pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:35pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1