The Official Forum

The Official Forum (https://forum.officiating.com/)
-   Basketball (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/)
-   -   Patient Whistle (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/57314-patient-whistle.html)

refnuts Wed Feb 24, 2010 09:55am

Patient Whistle
 
GV County Game - I'm the trail, 4th Q, team A up 6, 2 min left and in the double bonus.

B1 guarding A1 who receives a pass, strikes A1 in the face while attempting to steal ball. I am straightlined and don't see the contact, but observe A1s reaction to contact as she grabs for her face. I blow a very late whistle for foul on B1.


Called a foul for contact I did not observe directly, but must have happened.

Coach of B wasn't happy but understood and agreed with the call.

Adam Wed Feb 24, 2010 09:58am

Not sure I'd have called that.

Raymond Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:01am

I have had plays where I wasn't sure if there was contact to the face but upon seeing the reaction then blew my whistle.

fullor30 Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:03am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 664399)
Not sure I'd have called that.

+1 Based on post, I wouldn't guess.

SWMOzebra Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:29am

Quote:

Originally Posted by refnuts (Post 664396)
Coach of B wasn't happy but understood and agreed with the call.

Had you passed on the foul because you didn't see the contact, the coach of A likely wouldn't have been happy. Best to hold your whistle unless you directly observe the contact.

jeffpea Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:07am

as I have worked w/ officials from higher levels (D1 and NBA) this season, it's been interesting to watch them only blow the whistle when they see the foul/violation. your call accuracy goes up when you only "call what you see". much better to blow when you know what happened rather than to guess (of course, you may guess right sometimes - but they don't pay us to be right "sometimes")....

ajs8207 Wed Feb 24, 2010 01:00pm

Was this two person or three person?

doubleringer Wed Feb 24, 2010 01:26pm

If you don't see it, you can't call it.

refnuts Wed Feb 24, 2010 01:28pm

Partners input
 
It was 2 person. Partner saw the contact but was not blowing a foul right in front of me.

Adam Wed Feb 24, 2010 01:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by refnuts (Post 664462)
It was 2 person. Partner saw the contact but was not blowing a foul right in front of me.

So you guessed right.

bradfordwilkins Wed Feb 24, 2010 01:45pm

I think the title of this thread should be "Not Guessing" instead of "Patient Whistle" because they two different topics :-)

just another ref Wed Feb 24, 2010 03:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by refnuts (Post 664396)
,,,,,,, but observe A1s reaction to contact as she grabs for her face. I blow a very late whistle for foul on B1.


Called a foul for contact I did not observe directly, but must have happened.

I have no problem with this. When you've been at it long enough you know what a genuine reaction to contact looks like, even if you didn't actually see it.

You can also call out of bounds without actually seeing the player step on the line. He looks down, then looks at you. It's written all over his face.

chartrusepengui Wed Feb 24, 2010 03:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 664519)
I have no problem with this. When you've been at it long enough you know what a genuine reaction to contact looks like, even if you didn't actually see it.

You can also call out of bounds without actually seeing the player step on the line. He looks down, then looks at you. It's written all over his face.

"And so it goes, and so it goes. And you're the only one who knows."

btaylor64 Wed Feb 24, 2010 03:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffpea (Post 664413)
as I have worked w/ officials from higher levels (D1 and NBA) this season, it's been interesting to watch them only blow the whistle when they see the foul/violation. your call accuracy goes up when you only "call what you see". much better to blow when you know what happened rather than to guess (of course, you may guess right sometimes - but they don't pay us to be right "sometimes")....

Im sure there will be plenty on here who might disagree with this and some who might:

Sometimes you can use visual cues to "aid" your playcalling, i.e., a player who jumps off both feet is a lot less likely to have illegal trajectory than a player who jumps off of one foot. A hit to the face is something that you absolutely can't miss. It can cause the player who got hit to not only be mad at you bc you missed what he/she knows is an obvious foul but also it gives that player more cause to retaliate later on seeking "justice" for what you did not call. I believe hits to the face spark more rage by the involved player than any other missed call in basketball. The player reacting as she did to the swing is a strong visual cue that she was indeed hit. I don't know many players at the college level and below who fake getting hit in the face, nose, etc. It happens a good amount at the pro level because these guys are masters at fool the ref type plays, but amateur athletes, I have come to find out, rarely, if ever fake getting hit in the face. If you are watching the whole play and see the swing and the reaction, but somehow don't absolutely see the exact time of contact, I believe you are still justified in using the visual cue and Basketball IQ to whistle this a foul.

and btw, jurassic it is good to see you back on the forum. I don't know where you went but its been too long.

shutupneff Wed Feb 24, 2010 03:58pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by refnuts (Post 664462)
It was 2 person. Partner saw the contact but was not blowing a foul right in front of me.

Sounds like your partner should've called it with a patient whistle. If you see something in your partner's primary, wait a beat for them to call it and, using that time, figure out if they didn't have the best angle for some reason (straightlined etc.). If so, blow your whistle and save your partner.

I had a play a few weeks ago where I was caught out of position and would have liked the help. I was new trail in 2-whistle. A1 made an unexpected attempt to blow by B1 just passed midcourt, and I got stuck behind the play. B1 tried to get in front of A1 but never obtained LGP, contact (which I couldn't see) occurs, A1 stumbles and B1 falls to the floor. I waited a beat, decided a foul had definitely occurred even if I didn't see the actual contact and blew my whistle and put my fist up. I waited another beat to replay it in my head and then signaled a block, and almost everyone in the gym starts screaming that it was a stiff arm. I realize that, if it was, I'd had the absolute worst angle on the play and call my partner over.
"Did you see the contact?"
"Oh yeah. Blatant stiff arm."
I signal a PC foul. Team A coach wasn't happy, but that was mainly because he lost his best player to a fifth foul in a close game. Afterwards, I told my partner exactly what I said in the first paragraph.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:01pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1