referee has family in high school game

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

How far does it go? Should Hartzell be forced to give up working D-I basketball cause he's an AD at a D-I school?

For the record Hartzell left UNI a few years later.

Also a side note to that story. The commentator that raised that issue was ESPN analyst Doug Gottlieb. I actually knew Hartzell's wife as she was an official too and she worked games in front of me at the JUCO level on the Women's side. Well I ran into his wife a few years back at the Big Ten Tournament. She told me that Hartzell took an article in which Referee Magazine wrote about him and the Gottlieb created controversy and Gottlieb was working a game as an analyst. Well Rick Hartzell was officiating and Rick went up to Gottlieb with the article and gave it to Gottlieb before the game started. I guess Gottlieb did not have a lot to say at that point from what I understand.

Originally Posted by RichMSN

And if you look at subvarsity, many schools hire district teachers and local residents to work those games. Nobody bats an eye at that.

I agree. Lower levels cannot have the same standard as a varsity contest or in some cases you might not have officials if such a policy were to outlaw anyone that knows anyone or is related to anyone in a lower level game.

Peace

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Smaller towns may not have the same luxuries.

This is a valid point in these situations. My dad still officiates "back home", which is the fairly unpopulated area of Northwest Kansas. He doesn't officiate varsity level games for our home town, but he does other games in the league and in the surrounding area.

If people in this area were to never work a game where a relative (niece/nephew, cousin, etc) played, there wouldn't be enough officials to go around. When I was playing I had cousins on several of the 10 league teams. When you combine that with the fact that my dad has been in that area all his life and that he often knows coaches, parents, and other players even better than these 'relatives' you can see that these issues are going to arise.

He has regular partners, and they typically do one or two games a year (just had one in a league tournament two weeks ago) where one of the coaches is a brother-in-law of one of his partners.

It's just the way it goes in some areas of the country. They're quite happy to just have some competent officials in that part of the state.

[Adam]

That's another good point. Often in these rural areas, families have obviously expanded over the years to where, like you note, cousins will be on teams from several schools in an area. That's why each official is generally left to make this decision on his/her own.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

May not be true. What if they work a game in which a certain team losing would greatly benefit their nephew's team? Or what if one of the teams in that game plays their nephew's team next and they eject their top player so he must sit out that next contest?

There can be many problems.

And if that is the only conference in the vicinity for them to work? They should retire from officiating until all their neices and nephews graduate?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

And if that is the only conference in the vicinity for them to work? They should retire from officiating until all their neices and nephews graduate?

Which by that time there they'll be too old to officiate based on Nevada's standards.

The fact is, in sparsely populated areas like this, you just can't always get away from it.

How far do you take this? 2nd cousins? 3rd cousins?

"Our official last night is the other team's coach's auto mechanic!"
"Our official last night has a son whose wife's younger brother plays on a JV team in our conference!"
"Our official last night has a son whose father in law has a brother whose wife's nephew's fiance is a cheerleder for the other team!"

[grunewar]

This is going too far!

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

"Our official last night has a son whose father in law has a brother whose wife's nephew's fiance is a cheerleader for the other team!"

An engaged cheerleader? In HS? That's just wrong!

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

So you are saying that if someone thinks there is a conflict, there is a conflict? That opens up a whole lot of cans of worms if that is true.

Peace

Sure does. You and I know it's not true, but to others it can be perceived as such. I can't control what fans may think. So the end result is truth be damned, they believe what they want to.


"Everything you can imagine is real."

---Pablo Picasso---

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

They should retire from officiating until all their nieces and nephews graduate?

Hell, if that was the rule in some states, you wouldn't have any officials left to do any games.

West Virginia, Tennessee......






Just kidding.

[Adam]

Bad Woddy.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Bad Woddy.

Bad, bad Woddy.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Sure does. You and I know it's not true, but to others it can be perceived as such. I can't control what fans may think. So the end result is truth be damned, they believe what they want to.


"Everything you can imagine is real."

---Pablo Picasso---

Fans do not set the agenda or rules to who will work or not work a game. If that was the case people who lived in the same country, knows someone from a school or just likes or does not dislike a school (according to the fans) would be excluded. This is also why the only requirement for the IHSA is to list what schools you attended and the schools in which you have family or relatives that attend or work at a particular school. And even that seems to involve spouse and children in the policy, not the 3rd or 4th cousin you might not even deal with. Or better yet not the girl you once dated in college. I guess I should not have worked in the football post season in 2 different rounds as I worked schools that were in the town I lived and I had both schools. One school won and another school lost. And yes certain people knew where I lived and it was not an issue anymore than it needed to be. And the year before I worked in the basketball regional with the only private school in my town in a regional and I worked the third round of the playoffs in football with that same school (and I could go back to baseball post season games but you get the idea). I have absolutely no direct ties to these schools other than I live in the same town. I have closer ties to other schools that are completely out of my area, but when I work games my affiliations have nothing to do with my job and I believe that is the case with the vast majority of officials as well.

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Hell, if that was the rule in some states, you wouldn't have any officials left to do any games.

West Virginia, Tennessee......






Just kidding.

People in Hell don't have relatives?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Fans do not set the agenda or rules to who will work or not work a game.

But fans are the ones who complain to those who decide who will work the games. It trickles down.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

But fans are the ones who complain to those who decide who will work the games. It trickles down.

True, but those who make those decisions need to have some stones and make rational decisions.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

True, but those who make those decisions need to have some stones and make rational decisions.

Agree 100%, but it doesn't always happen. I could give examples.