Violation or no call.....

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by jeffpea

based on your description above....yep!...travel

Only if you're interpreting it as having him gain possession prior to being on the floor, as stated above. Reading the original post, I can't tell if that was the case or not.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Only if you're interpreting it as having him gain possession prior to being on the floor, as stated above. Reading the original post, I can't tell if that was the case or not.

I actually read the opposite of what he did, assuming the player gained possession on the floor.

[jeffpea]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Only if you're interpreting it as having him gain possession prior to being on the floor, as stated above. Reading the original post, I can't tell if that was the case or not.

read the OP again....."A1 dives for the ball, gains possession and slides across the floor."...sounds to me like he DID gain possession and THEN slides across the floor....easy one...tweet...travel.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by jeffpea

read the OP again....."A1 dives for the ball, gains possession and slides across the floor."...sounds to me like he DID gain possession and THEN slides across the floor....easy one...tweet...travel.

As worded, I see it as vague. For the record, I agree with you. If he gained possession airborne, it's a travel.

If I can't tell which happened first as I'm watching, it's legal.

[Crabnut]

Sounds like your defining a travel as sliding across the floor with possession? Interesting part of the discussion here has to do with the slipperiness of the floor. Is that the player's fault? Being a relatively new, I have been pursuing this question with our varsity refs, and most won't call it. Standing up, Yes. Rolling over, yes. Sliding, no.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Crabnut

Sounds like your defining a travel as sliding across the floor with possession? Interesting part of the discussion here has to do with the slipperiness of the floor. Is that the player's fault? Being a relatively new, I have been pursuing this question with our varsity refs, and most won't call it. Standing up, Yes. Rolling over, yes. Sliding, no.

They shouldn't call it either. Sliding on the floor is specifically allowed by rule, as long as the player was already on the floor when they gained possession.

The travel isn't for sliding, it's for touching the floor with any part of the body besides the hand or foot. The exception is for when possession is gained while already down on the floor. At that point, they can slide and roll as far as momentum takes them. After the momentum is over, however, they may not roll or attempt to get up unless they start dribbling first.

[Johnny Ringo]

It is known, under the rules, that a player may dive for a loose ball, gain possesion on the floor and slide or roll until momentum stops without violation.

However, what if a player dives for a loose ball that is bouncing and secures the ball while in the air and then hits the floor and slides or rolls (momentum) ... is this a violation?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo

However, what if a player dives for a loose ball that is bouncing and secures the ball while in the air and then hits the floor and slides or rolls (momentum) ... is this a violation?

Isn't that covered in 4.44.5 Situation A, part (b)?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Crabnut

Sounds like your defining a travel as sliding across the floor with possession? Interesting part of the discussion here has to do with the slipperiness of the floor. Is that the player's fault? Being a relatively new, I have been pursuing this question with our varsity refs, and most won't call it. Standing up, Yes. Rolling over, yes. Sliding, no.

You might wish to consult the NFHS Rules Book and Case Book. You hold a mistaken belief about traveling.

4-44-5 . . . A player holding the ball:
a. May not touch the floor with a knee or any other part of the body other than hand or foot.
b. After gaining control while on the floor and touching with other than hand
or foot, may not attempt to get up or stand.

4.44.5 SITUATION A: Is it traveling if A1 falls to the floor: (a) while holding the
ball; or (b) after being airborne to catch a pass or control a rebound? RULING:
Yes in both (a) and (b).

4.44.5 SITUATION B: A1 dives for a loose ball and slides after gaining control.
A1 is in a position either on his/her back or stomach. What can A1 do without
violating? RULING: A1 may pass, shoot, start a dribble or call a time-out. Once
A1 has the ball and is no longer sliding, he/she may not roll over. If flat on his/her
back, A1 may sit up without violating. Any attempt to get to the feet is traveling
unless A1 is dribbling. It is also traveling if A1 puts the ball on the floor, then rises
and is first to touch the ball. (4-44-5b)

[Crabnut]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

You might wish to consult the NFHS Rules Book and Case Book. You hold a mistaken belief about traveling.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if I do, but I am not identifying it based on your comments. Your case book quotes agree with my "belief." What am I missing?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Crabnut

Sounds like your defining a travel as sliding across the floor with possession? Interesting part of the discussion here has to do with the slipperiness of the floor. Is that the player's fault? Being a relatively new, I have been pursuing this question with our varsity refs, and most won't call it. Standing up, Yes. Rolling over, yes. Sliding, no.

1) Whether the floor is slippery or not is completely irrelevant.
2) And if your varsity refs are calling players for rolling over on the floor while having possession of the ball, then your varsity refs may be wrong also. It's only illegal to roll over if that occurs after the player has stopped sliding. That's what Nevada was pointing out.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by jeffpea

read the OP again....."A1 dives for the ball, gains possession and slides across the floor."...sounds to me like he DID gain possession and THEN slides across the floor....easy one...tweet...travel.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

As worded, I see it as vague. For the record, I agree with you. If he gained possession airborne, it's a travel.

If I can't tell which happened first as I'm watching, it's legal.

I was somewhat vague when describing the play because it was not clear that the player gained possession while airborne or on the floor. When a player is going for a loose ball, we tend to give the player the benefit of the doubt in terms of whether the player is airborne or already on the floor.

In order for me to call a violation or a foul, I MUST see the violation or foul. In this instance, I felt as though there was sufficient doubt. Therefore, I let the play go.

[refiator]

In order for me to call a violation or a foul, I MUST see the violation or foul. In this instance, I felt as though there was sufficient doubt. Therefore, I let the play go.[/QUOTE]

If the player gained control and then slid....NO CALL. Momentum CANNOT be ruled a travel....A player can slide across the floor with the ball for any distance if momentum carries them...with no penalty. The fans will go nuts, but this is NOT a travel.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by refiator

If the player gained control and then slid....NO CALL. Momentum CANNOT be ruled a travel....A player can slide across the floor with the ball for any distance if momentum carries them...with no penalty. The fans will go nuts, but this is NOT a travel.

We're not talking about calling the travel based on the slide, we all know that part is legal; assuming the player gained control while on the floor. A player who controls the ball while airborne is subject to the same restrictions as a player standing; he may not touch the floor with any part of the body other than the hands or feet.

[asdf]

Exactly...

No different than if a player jumps for a rebound, controls the ball while airborne and falls to the floor while still in control.