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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 06, 2001, 01:56am
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Do you guys give a verbal warning for 3 seconds in the lane? For example, you say "Watch the lane" or "Get outta the lane" or sometimes I say "watch the paint".

I have had maybe one or two varsity refs that I have called with tell me I should do this instead of calling it right then. (I mostly call JV games)

But in my opinion, they are old enough at that level to know that they can't just camp in the lane.
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Old Thu Dec 06, 2001, 06:25am
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Try Not To Call Three Seconds

One of my mentors early in my career advised me to call three second violations as infrequently as possible. His premise was that "nobody likes a three second call." Talk to the kids during play and tell them to get out of the paint. Most of the time they simply forget where they are, especially at younger age levels. Keeping the kids moving keeps the clock and the game moving, helping you in that never-ending quest to "get into the flow of the game."

Now, having said that, you have to call it if a kid gets in the paint and camps.
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Old Thu Dec 06, 2001, 08:44am
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I am not of the school where "you never call 3 seconds". We have some of those guys around here and it drives me nuts.

Having said that, you should do everything in your power to talk them out of the lane. It is no different if they are banging down low and you tell them to clean it up (yes, I know the NCAA said this doesn't work, but I think it does).

It is called preventive officiating.
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Old Thu Dec 06, 2001, 09:03am
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I'll talk them out, especially if it's early in the game. It's usually a kid with vapor-lock in the brain, and is camping out. One "get out of the key" usually wakes them up. If it doesn't, and I'm tired of telling him, I'll probably call it.

The exception is when an advantage is gained. Once that pass comes in to the kid that's been camping, that's automatic. Call it immediately before he turns around and shoots.
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Old Thu Dec 06, 2001, 09:10am
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Exclamation

As long as 3 second violation is in the rule book, it is meant to be called. If you allow JV and middle school stay in lane,then there will be no way for them to know what they are doing wrong.
Give the player(s) a warning. If they make an honest effort to move out - no advantage.
Always be aware of the ball if you are weak side. Nothing looks worse than you calling 3 second when the ball is being released for a shot.
PS
POE this year in womens is 3 second. NCAA instructions - "CALL IT"
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Old Thu Dec 06, 2001, 09:20am
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3 seconds

For 5/6th grade, I will issue them a warning once. After that it is tweet, tweet. Junior high and up, no warning at all.
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Old Thu Dec 06, 2001, 09:41am
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Exclamation Make the call

Make the call!

This year there is once again an emphasis on cleaning the game up. Keeping the lane clear helps to do that.

Hints for calling 3 seconds. Warn the player at least once in the game before calling it on him/her. Find the ball before calling the violation. Don't make the call when a shot is in the air. Make sure that the violator is still going to be in the lane when you make your call. There is nothing worse than calling 3 seconds and when people look, there is nobody in the lane (unless your whistle is simultaneous with the swish of the ball going through the net from a long 3 pointer). If the player is trying to clear, give them the opportunity.

Lastly, remember that when a player legally gets the ball in the lane, the count is suspended until the player does something with the ball. That is, they can fake and dribble and eventually take a shot without the violation being called. However, if after taking excessive time in the paint, they then pass the ball out to a teammate, the call should be made immediately.
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Old Thu Dec 06, 2001, 09:51am
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Re: Make the call

Quote:
Originally posted by bigwhistle

Lastly, remember that when a player legally gets the ball in the lane, the count is suspended until the player does something with the ball. That is, they can fake and dribble and eventually take a shot without the violation being called. However, if after taking excessive time in the paint, they then pass the ball out to a teammate, the call should be made immediately.
You're going to get a lot of argument about this. The rulebook says "Allowance shall be made for a player who, having been in the restricted area for less than tree seconds, dribbles in or moves to try for goal."

That doesn't sound to me like he is allowed to fake then dribble around then fake again then turn then put a shot up "eventually". It sounds to me like the count is at 2, he catches a pass, you count to three, he dribbles to the hoop for a layup. I don't think you give him 10 seconds in the lane to make his shot, whether he passes it out or not. If he doesn't move to the basket immediately after I get to 3, then it's a violation.

Chuck
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Old Thu Dec 06, 2001, 10:27am
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Re: Re: Make the call

Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias


You're going to get a lot of argument about this. The rulebook says "Allowance shall be made for a player who, having been in the restricted area for less than tree seconds, dribbles in or moves to try for goal."

That doesn't sound to me like he is allowed to fake then dribble around then fake again then turn then put a shot up "eventually". It sounds to me like the count is at 2, he catches a pass, you count to three, he dribbles to the hoop for a layup. I don't think you give him 10 seconds in the lane to make his shot, whether he passes it out or not. If he doesn't move to the basket immediately after I get to 3, then it's a violation.

Chuck [/B]
Chuck,

Where is the "allowance that shall be made" if you call the violation immediately after you get to 3?

There is no time restriction given in the book for the length of time allowed for the player to dribble in or move to try for goal. This is subjective. Is faking a move to try for goal? IMO it is.

This is why I will give the offensive player a lot of latitude in this situation.

However, I do understand your reasoning...just don't agree with it.
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Old Thu Dec 06, 2001, 10:29am
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You will definitely have the dogs on you now:

Lastly, remember that when a player legally gets the ball in the lane, the count is
suspended until the player does something with the ball. That is, they can fake and dribble
and eventually take a shot without the violation being called. However, if after taking
excessive time in the paint, they then pass the ball out to a teammate, the call should be
made immediately.

That is about the opposite of the way I will call it. If a player is in the lane for a couple of seconds, then gets the ball he/she better not be faking and dribbling or I will make the call. If they are making a move to the hoop, no problem but any other crap and they are going to get the call. That is exactly when all eyes are focused on the paint and everybody in the place is yelling "3 seconds", which almost makes me want to lose count, but I think it has to be called in that situation. I agree with everything else you said about finding the ball, and preventative officiating to give the player an opportunity to not violate. What's that somebody sez, Peace.
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Old Thu Dec 06, 2001, 11:08am
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My reading of the rule with regard to possession in the paint is that you must be making some sort of definitive move to score. Merely having the ball and moving in the paint, ultimately shooting it, does not comply with that rule. Ball fake, up and under, second ball fake, shot - that passes the test. Ball fake, dribble left, dribble right, dribble back left, ball fake left, pivot, ball fake right, blah blah blah - at some point this is 3 seconds, regardless of whether or not this player is going to shoot the ball sometime.

I always teach my players to make a definitive move to the hoop, both because it makes good ball sense and because they cn get 3 seconds called if they mess around in the paint before shooting. And in my experience, this is exactly how it is called.
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Old Thu Dec 06, 2001, 11:22am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hawks Coach
Merely having the ball and moving in the paint, ultimately shooting it, does not comply with that rule. Ball fake, up and under, second ball fake, shot - that passes the test. Ball fake, dribble left, dribble right, dribble back left, ball fake left, pivot, ball fake right, blah blah blah - at some point this is 3 seconds,
Well said, Coach.

Chuck
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Old Thu Dec 06, 2001, 02:12pm
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Talking

Thanks guys for the advice!
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Old Thu Dec 06, 2001, 02:15pm
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I AGREE HAWKS COACH

This is the way the game should be taught...

Here is my approach to "preventative officiating" in regards to the 3 Seconds violation. Call the 1st one, LOUD AND CLEAR, and be consistent thereafter. The reason I go this way is... "Coaxing them" out of the lane verbally is showing favortism.

Speaking idealistically, if you give 'Red 52' a verbal, "out of the lane", then aren't you obliged to do this, at least once, for all other players?

We can't (and shouldn't) "talk them out of" all violations.

Ah yes, the philosophical question.
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Old Thu Dec 06, 2001, 02:33pm
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Talking

Hawkscoach sure makes more sense than CoachJF at the "other place"
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