Flagrant and Ejection

[jkohls]

8th grade girls last night. Both teams in double bonus. H up 2, inbounding following made basket. V is pressing and as H1 takes the ball down the sideline in front of the table, V1 runs up behind H1 and pushes her, 2 hands in the middle of the back, driving her to the floor. I hit the whistle and signal intentional foula dn go to report. as I indicate that the girl is ejection, V coach tells me "Not a problem; she's done." He then began forceful coaching of the girl on what she had done wrong. Taht was nice to see.

We administered 2 FT with lane clear and had H! throw in at the POI.

Two questions: Should there have been more FTs? I said no since it was one act. My partner later thought 2 additional FTs (double bonus plus flagrant). I told him I was pretty sure we did it right, but I would check. (We both feel we are getting better on our mechanics and take whatever opportunity we can to reinforce that are doing things the right way.)
Secondly, what is the proper mechanic in this situation? I've called interntional before, but never a flagrant and ejection.

Thanks in advance.

[j51969]

Originally Posted by jkohls

8th grade girls last night. Both teams in double bonus. H up 2, inbounding following made basket. V is pressing and as H1 takes the ball down the sideline in front of the table, V1 runs up behind H1 and pushes her, 2 hands in the middle of the back, driving her to the floor. I hit the whistle and signal intentional foula dn go to report. as I indicate that the girl is ejection, V coach tells me "Not a problem; she's done." He then began forceful coaching of the girl on what she had done wrong. Taht was nice to see.

We administered 2 FT with lane clear and had H! throw in at the POI.

Two questions: Should there have been more FTs? I said no since it was one act. My partner later thought 2 additional FTs (double bonus plus flagrant). I told him I was pretty sure we did it right, but I would check. (We both feel we are getting better on our mechanics and take whatever opportunity we can to reinforce that are doing things the right way.)
Secondly, what is the proper mechanic in this situation? I've called interntional before, but never a flagrant and ejection.

Thanks in advance.

POI, or spot nearest of violation???? POI shouldn't be a factor.

[jkohls]

Nearest Violation. Dribbler was fouled just past division line and that is where we did the throw in.

[representing]

Originally Posted by jkohls

8th grade girls last night. Both teams in double bonus. H up 2, inbounding following made basket. V is pressing and as H1 takes the ball down the sideline in front of the table, V1 runs up behind H1 and pushes her, 2 hands in the middle of the back, driving her to the floor. I hit the whistle and signal intentional foula dn go to report. as I indicate that the girl is ejection, V coach tells me "Not a problem; she's done." He then began forceful coaching of the girl on what she had done wrong. Taht was nice to see.

We administered 2 FT with lane clear and had H! throw in at the POI.

Two questions: Should there have been more FTs? I said no since it was one act. My partner later thought 2 additional FTs (double bonus plus flagrant). I told him I was pretty sure we did it right, but I would check. (We both feel we are getting better on our mechanics and take whatever opportunity we can to reinforce that are doing things the right way.)
Secondly, what is the proper mechanic in this situation? I've called interntional before, but never a flagrant and ejection.

Thanks in advance.

Did you call an intention foul or a flagrant foul? For this play i would have called a flagrant foul which is just another technical signal + ejection signal (or this is what I would do however I've never had a flagrant foul yet).

[jkohls]

I called flagrant t the table, but, honestly, here is how I did it and I know I am wrong.
I hit the whistle, fist in the air, then signaled intentional. In this situation, the coach of the team that fouled wouldn't have cared what I signaled because he was one the girl quicker than anyone else was.

As I had said, I want to get the mechanics correct.

[refiator]

Originally Posted by jkohls

I called flagrant t the table, but, honestly, here is how I did it and I know I am wrong.
I hit the whistle, fist in the air, then signaled intentional. In this situation, the coach of the team that fouled wouldn't have cared what I signaled because he was one the girl quicker than anyone else was.

As I had said, I want to get the mechanics correct.

Not A "T"....It was a live ball ..This cannot be a technical in this case....Only a flagrant or intentional foul; 2 shots plus the the ball at the point nearest the foul.

[Juulie Downs]

Originally Posted by refiator

Not A "T"....It was a live ball ..This cannot be a technical in this case....Only a flagrant or intentional foul; 2 shots plus the the ball at the point nearest the foul.

It doesn't have to be either/or flagrant/ intentional, it can be both. And it's definitely NOT a T, you're right about that, refiator. You've got the penalty right.

Use the intentional foul signal, tell the coach and the table it's flagrant and then administer the shots same as any other intentional foul.

[jkohls]

That's what I did. Guess I get lucky sometimes.

Thanks for the responses. I read the forum often and it really has been helpful.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Juulie Downs

It doesn't have to be either/or flagrant/ intentional, it can be both.

No, it can't.

Since the ball was live, and it was a contact foul, it's personal.

It might be an intentional personal ("x" signal; 2 Fts by fouled player, ball at spot nearest foul).

It might be a flagrant personal (no specified signal, 2 Fts by fouled player, ball at spot nearest foul).

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Juulie Downs

It doesn't have to be either/or flagrant/ intentional, it can be both. And it's definitely NOT a T, you're right about that, refiator. You've got the penalty right.

bob's right, it does have to be either flagrant or intentional; not both. Different penalties. It is, however, personal. The difference is the fouled player has to shoot the FTs (or her sub), and the ball is taken out at the spot nearet the foul.

[Kelvin green]

Originally Posted by representing

Did you call an intention foul or a flagrant foul? For this play i would have called a flagrant foul which is just another technical signal + ejection signal (or this is what I would do however I've never had a flagrant foul yet).

flagrant personal foul is not just another T signal

T's are T's... those that arent arent

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Kelvin green

T's are T's, those that aren't aren't.

"T's are T's, those that aren't aren't." © 2010 Kelvin green

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by jkohls

8th grade girls last night. Both teams in double bonus. H up 2, inbounding following made basket. V is pressing and as H1 takes the ball down the sideline in front of the table, V1 runs up behind H1 and pushes her, 2 hands in the middle of the back, driving her to the floor. I hit the whistle and signal intentional foul and go to report. as I indicate that the girl is ejection, V coach tells me "Not a problem; she's done." He then began forceful coaching of the girl on what she had done wrong. Taht was nice to see.

This is the part of the OP that confused me.

To apply what others have posted: since this play involved contact during a live ball, it's a personal foul. The choices are intentional or flagrant (not both). If you called an intentional foul, you should have had no ejection. If you meant to call a flagrant foul, you should not have signaled an intentional foul.

In both cases the fouled player (or sub if she's injured) shoots 2. And in neither case is the ball put back in play at the POI; the fouled team gets the ball at the spot nearest the foul.

[jkohls]

Originally Posted by mbyron

This is the part of the OP that confused me.

To apply what others have posted: since this play involved contact during a live ball, it's a personal foul. The choices are intentional or flagrant (not both). If you called an intentional foul, you should have had no ejection. If you meant to call a flagrant foul, you should not have signaled an intentional foul.

In both cases the fouled player (or sub if she's injured) shoots 2. And in neither case is the ball put back in play at the POI; the fouled team gets the ball at the spot nearest the foul.

That (the signal) is the part I know I messed up. I should not have signaled intentional.

[mutantducky]

so a flagrant foul is to be shot by the person who was fouled? If this person can't shoot it can any player on the floor or bench shoot?
If it is a flagrant technical I assume any player can shoot the fts. For intentional the player fouled shoots correct?