We kicked it. Did I do enough?

[referee99]

GV. 3rd quarter. I'm Lead. Team A has a try from the opposite side of the floor from me.
Ball hits up top (I'm eyeing rebounding action) caroms, tip, bat, scramble, bat (last bat by A1 knocks ball into back court. A2 recovers ball in back court. Partner calls backcourt violation.

I get to my partner. "Partner, we had a try... did Team A have team control after the try?" He replies, "Yes, they had team control." Me, "you're sure?" Him, "yes".

I go to the throw-in spot and bounce the ball to the thrower.

After the game I tell him I think we kicked that one. He says that yeah, he guesses we did.

If it was a critical moment in the game, I would have probably slowed him down more, maybe review the sequence of events and try to get the correct outcome.

Any advice on language/techniques to get partner amenable to changing? Seems that in the moment he was committed to his call, and not eager to analyze.

[Skarecrow]

last touched, first touched....backcourt, in my opinion....

[Mark Padgett]

You could have asked your partner if any player on team A held or dribbled the ball after the try and before it was batted into the backcourt. That would have given both of you a definitive answer.

[Indianaref]

Originally Posted by Skarecrow

last touched, first touched....backcourt, in my opinion....

Wrong. No team control, no violation.

[representing]

Originally Posted by Indianaref

Wrong. No team control, no violation.

Just a thought... if the ball was batted in an attempt to get the ball away from the defense or to a teammate, wouldn't that be considered a controlled pass?

We had this happen in my Boys Freshmen game on Wednesday. I'm trail, my partner's lead. A is offense, B is defense. Shot goes up, misses, players trying to rebound and eventually the ball gets to the floor and someone just batted the ball to the backcourt. I couldn't see who it was, as it was outside the lane opposite to me where my partner would have had the better view. Ball goes almost to the opposite endline and the A1 regained possession. Not having any clue if there was any absolute team control I didn't blow anything and left that up to my partner to call. He blew his whistle and called backcourt. We got together and I asked him what he saw as I couldn't see anything. He said that the ball was on the ground and during the "fight for the ball" A2 pushed the ball into the back court with one hand. I told him good call, as it was with intent to get it away from the opponents and to a teammate.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by representing

Just a thought... if the ball was batted in an attempt to get the ball away from the defense or to a teammate, wouldn't that be considered a controlled pass?

No.

[refiator]

No different from a throw in by A in front court, ball touched by A1, rolls into backcourt, and picked up by A2 in BC The fans go nuts, but no BC violation.
You have to have front court control established for a BC violation to be called.
This did not happen in this case...no violation.

[Adam]

Rep, look in the rule book under player control. Rule is 4-12. Your partner did not make a good call.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Rep, look in the rule book under player control. Rule is 4-12. Your partner did not make a good call.

Casebook plays 4.12COMMENT and 4.12.6 might help him also.

Might.....

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by representing

1)Just a thought... if the ball was batted in an attempt to get the ball away from the defense or to a teammate, wouldn't that be considered a controlled pass?

2) We had this happen in my Boys Freshmen game on Wednesday. I'm trail, my partner's lead. A is offense, B is defense. Shot goes up, misses, players trying to rebound and eventually the ball gets to the floor and someone just batted the ball to the backcourt. I couldn't see who it was, as it was outside the lane opposite to me where my partner would have had the better view. Ball goes almost to the opposite endline and the A1 regained possession. Not having any clue if there was any absolute team control I didn't blow anything and left that up to my partner to call. He blew his whistle and called backcourt. We got together and I asked him what he saw as I couldn't see anything. He said that the ball was on the ground and during the "fight for the ball" A2 pushed the ball into the back court with one hand. I told him good call, as it was with intent to get it away from the opponents and to a teammate.

1) What if it was? You still can't have a backcourt violation until player control is established.

2) See #1. Wrong call by your partner and wrong interpretation of the rule by you..

[representing]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

1) What if it was? You still can't have a backcourt violation until player control is established.

You can't pass the ball without player/team control though, which is why I always thought that if a player batted the ball in an attempt to "pass" it to a teammate, than you have team control.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by representing

Just a thought... if the ball was batted in an attempt to get the ball away from the defense or to a teammate, wouldn't that be considered a controlled pass?

We had this happen in my Boys Freshmen game on Wednesday. I'm trail, my partner's lead. A is offense, B is defense. Shot goes up, misses, players trying to rebound and eventually the ball gets to the floor and someone just batted the ball to the backcourt. I couldn't see who it was, as it was outside the lane opposite to me where my partner would have had the better view. Ball goes almost to the opposite endline and the A1 regained possession. Not having any clue if there was any absolute team control I didn't blow anything and left that up to my partner to call. He blew his whistle and called backcourt. We got together and I asked him what he saw as I couldn't see anything. He said that the ball was on the ground and during the "fight for the ball" A2 pushed the ball into the back court with one hand. I told him good call, as it was with intent to get it away from the opponents and to a teammate.

Here's a thought. You need to stop telling people about the rules until you learn them yourself. You are an inexperienced, self-promoter, who is nothing more than a wet-nosed, puppy official. Right now you don't deserve anything other than a JV game. This whole situation is covered word-for-word in the Case Book, but despite what we tell you, you just won't learn. You still think that you already know everything.

4.15 COMMENT: It is not possible for a player to travel during a dribble. A player
is not dribbling while slapping the ball during a jump, when a pass rebounds
from his/her hand, when he/she fumbles, or when he/she bats a rebound or pass
away from other players who are attempting to get it. The player is not in control
under these conditions.

[representing]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Here's a thought. You need to stop telling people about the rules until you learn them yourself. You are an inexperienced, self-promoter, who is nothing more than a wet-nosed, puppy official. Right now you don't deserve anything other than a JV game. This whole situation is covered word-for-word in the Case Book, but despite what we tell you, you just won't learn. You still think that you already know everything.

4.15 COMMENT: It is not possible for a player to travel during a dribble. A player
is not dribbling while slapping the ball during a jump, when a pass rebounds
from his/her hand, when he/she fumbles, or when he/she bats a rebound or pass
away from other players who are attempting to get it. The player is not in control
under these conditions.

Nevada, What the hell?! I'm trying my best to turn myself around, and I even admitted TWICE in this thread that I was wrong and that i stood corrected.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by representing

Just a thought... if the ball was batted in an attempt to get the ball away from the defense or to a teammate, wouldn't that be considered a controlled pass?

We had this happen in my Boys Freshmen game on Wednesday. I'm trail, my partner's lead. A is offense, B is defense. Shot goes up, misses, players trying to rebound and eventually the ball gets to the floor and someone just batted the ball to the backcourt. I couldn't see who it was, as it was outside the lane opposite to me where my partner would have had the better view. Ball goes almost to the opposite endline and the A1 regained possession. Not having any clue if there was any absolute team control I didn't blow anything and left that up to my partner to call. He blew his whistle and called backcourt. We got together and I asked him what he saw as I couldn't see anything. He said that the ball was on the ground and during the "fight for the ball" A2 pushed the ball into the back court with one hand. I told him good call, as it was with intent to get it away from the opponents and to a teammate.

Why, if you couldn't see anything and your partner makes a call would you find it necessary to get together? You say you had no clue and left it up to your partner to call. After he does, you now want to discuss with him? You're very confusing. Maybe it's hard describing situations or communicating that has everyone jumping on you. You may want to keep your questions brief and learn more by reading other situations than presenting your own. Just my .02

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Skarecrow

last touched, first touched....backcourt, in my opinion....

But what else do you have to have? Team control. It doesn't sound as if there was team control.