We kicked it. Did I do enough?

[Adam]

Rep, look in the rule book under player control. Rule is 4-12. Your partner did not make a good call.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by representing

1)Just a thought... if the ball was batted in an attempt to get the ball away from the defense or to a teammate, wouldn't that be considered a controlled pass?

2) We had this happen in my Boys Freshmen game on Wednesday. I'm trail, my partner's lead. A is offense, B is defense. Shot goes up, misses, players trying to rebound and eventually the ball gets to the floor and someone just batted the ball to the backcourt. I couldn't see who it was, as it was outside the lane opposite to me where my partner would have had the better view. Ball goes almost to the opposite endline and the A1 regained possession. Not having any clue if there was any absolute team control I didn't blow anything and left that up to my partner to call. He blew his whistle and called backcourt. We got together and I asked him what he saw as I couldn't see anything. He said that the ball was on the ground and during the "fight for the ball" A2 pushed the ball into the back court with one hand. I told him good call, as it was with intent to get it away from the opponents and to a teammate.

1) What if it was? You still can't have a backcourt violation until player control is established.

2) See #1. Wrong call by your partner and wrong interpretation of the rule by you..

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Rep, look in the rule book under player control. Rule is 4-12. Your partner did not make a good call.

Casebook plays 4.12COMMENT and 4.12.6 might help him also.

Might.....

[representing]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Casebook plays 4.12COMMENT and 4.12.6 might help him also.

You guys are right. I did take a look at 4.12. Thanks

[representing]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

1) What if it was? You still can't have a backcourt violation until player control is established.

You can't pass the ball without player/team control though, which is why I always thought that if a player batted the ball in an attempt to "pass" it to a teammate, than you have team control.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by representing

You can't pass the ball without player/team control though, which is why I always thought that if a player batted the ball in an attempt to "pass" it to a teammate, than you have team control.

All that means is it's not technically a "pass," by rule, even if it's considered that by fans. It's a "bat," not a "pass."

[representing]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

All that means is it's not technically a "pass," by rule, even if it's considered that by fans. It's a "bat," not a "pass."

Gotcha. I stand corrected, thanks

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by representing

You can't pass the ball without player/team control though, which is why I always thought that if a player batted the ball in an attempt to "pass" it to a teammate, than you have team control.

On a missed shot, if a player bats or tips the rebound to a teammate, would you call that a pass(as defined in rule 4-31)?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

All that means is it's not technically a "pass," by rule, even if it's considered that by fans. It's a "bat," not a "pass."

Read the definition of pass.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Read the definition of pass.

Fair enough, I withdraw my previous comment, but player control is still required for team control.

[Loudwhistle]

Originally Posted by Skarecrow

last touched, first touched....backcourt, in my opinion....

That only applies once team control has been established. A touch doesn't mean team control.

[refiator]

No different from a throw in by A in front court, ball touched by A1, rolls into backcourt, and picked up by A2 in BC The fans go nuts, but no BC violation.
You have to have front court control established for a BC violation to be called.
This did not happen in this case...no violation.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by representing

Just a thought... if the ball was batted in an attempt to get the ball away from the defense or to a teammate, wouldn't that be considered a controlled pass?

We had this happen in my Boys Freshmen game on Wednesday. I'm trail, my partner's lead. A is offense, B is defense. Shot goes up, misses, players trying to rebound and eventually the ball gets to the floor and someone just batted the ball to the backcourt. I couldn't see who it was, as it was outside the lane opposite to me where my partner would have had the better view. Ball goes almost to the opposite endline and the A1 regained possession. Not having any clue if there was any absolute team control I didn't blow anything and left that up to my partner to call. He blew his whistle and called backcourt. We got together and I asked him what he saw as I couldn't see anything. He said that the ball was on the ground and during the "fight for the ball" A2 pushed the ball into the back court with one hand. I told him good call, as it was with intent to get it away from the opponents and to a teammate.

Here's a thought. You need to stop telling people about the rules until you learn them yourself. You are an inexperienced, self-promoter, who is nothing more than a wet-nosed, puppy official. Right now you don't deserve anything other than a JV game. This whole situation is covered word-for-word in the Case Book, but despite what we tell you, you just won't learn. You still think that you already know everything.

4.15 COMMENT: It is not possible for a player to travel during a dribble. A player
is not dribbling while slapping the ball during a jump, when a pass rebounds
from his/her hand, when he/she fumbles, or when he/she bats a rebound or pass
away from other players who are attempting to get it. The player is not in control
under these conditions.

[representing]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Here's a thought. You need to stop telling people about the rules until you learn them yourself. You are an inexperienced, self-promoter, who is nothing more than a wet-nosed, puppy official. Right now you don't deserve anything other than a JV game. This whole situation is covered word-for-word in the Case Book, but despite what we tell you, you just won't learn. You still think that you already know everything.

4.15 COMMENT: It is not possible for a player to travel during a dribble. A player
is not dribbling while slapping the ball during a jump, when a pass rebounds
from his/her hand, when he/she fumbles, or when he/she bats a rebound or pass
away from other players who are attempting to get it. The player is not in control
under these conditions.

Nevada, What the hell?! I'm trying my best to turn myself around, and I even admitted TWICE in this thread that I was wrong and that i stood corrected.

[mj]

Originally Posted by representing

Nevada, What the hell?! I'm trying my best to turn myself around, and I even admitted TWICE in this thread that I was wrong and that i stood corrected.

Representing, I think what Nevada is trying to say is do not post until you look it up yourself. You have been a member of this site for 2 months max and have over 400 posts. That is more posts than I have in 7 years on this site (and I officiate football and baseball too). It is a fabulous site to learn from but not if people are posting wrong rulings.

Be a lurker for a bit and listen to the vets on here (you'll know who they are after awhile). That and learning from your mistakes is how you're going to learn.