Timeout, inadvertent whistle situation

[StripesOhio]

I had a similar situation but I granted the timeout.

A1 gathers a loose ball near the division line and has possession. I am right next to the coach who starts yelling timeout. As I processed I was ready to grant the timeout A1 lost possession of the ball.

By the time I blew the whistle the appearance was he lost control of the ball. But I granted the timeout (in my head) before this happened.

Nobody complained either way.

Some have to realize that just because the whistle is late doesn't mean the call is wrong (or blown). Officials are human to and immediately blowing the whistle for something isn't going to happen.

[Adam]

I actually had a situation similar. H1 with the ball, about to lose it. He loses it just as the coach requests timeout and I blow my whistle. I pause for a second and replay it in my head before telling H coach that the request was too late, V had the ball, and I give him the option of using the timeout. He respectfully declined.

I know, I know. Incorrect by rule.

[BillyMac]

Back in the olden days, only a player whose team was holding, or dribbling, a live ball, would be allowed to request a timeout during a live ball. The good old days.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Back in the olden days, only a player whose team was holding, or dribbling, a live ball, would be allowed to request a timeout during a live ball. The good old days.

I don't know why people get misty over this. Back then the coach would be screaming trying to get his players to request a timeout and we'd have to stand there and look for players to clue in. The current way is easier.

I'd rather eliminate live ball timeouts altogether.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by fiasco

Why are you thinking of this as an IW? I think you guys kicked this one big time.

Remember that, in essence, it doesn't matter when you blow the whistle (it may look that way to the crowd and the other coach, but it doesn't matter). It matters when the timeout is requested.

If the coach requests the timeout when his team is in possession of the ball, you grant him the timeout, regardless of what happens inbetween the time you acknowledge his request and you put air in the whistle.

Just make sure that interval is as short as you can make it.

I disagree 100%. According to the rules, it does matter when the whistle is blown for granting a time-out. This is not a violation of foul which makes the ball become dead prior to the whistle. In this case, the ball isn't dead until the official sounds the whistle.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Three distinct events:
1. Coach requests time out.
2. Official grants time out.
3. Official signals time out by blowing whistle.

3 always happens after 2, though the time lag varies. If I find myself in a situation where I hit the whistle as a steal is in progress, I tell the aggrieved coach "I'd already granted the time out request, coach."

They hear the other coach's request, and they want that time out granted when their kid has the ball. I don't get much flak about it.

Nope. #2 and #3 happen at the same time. You have no rules support for your nice little schema. You may desire it to work that way, but according to the rules it doesn't. The ball isn't dead in your step #2. The ball becomes dead in #3 when the whistle blows. The defender made a good steal and your method screws him out of it. The coach wasn't quick enough in making his time-out request. That's all.

I hope that you don't go back and put an extra two seconds on the clock to reflect the time between when you "granted" the time-out before the opponent stole the ball and when you sounded your whistle.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Back in the olden days, only a player whose team was holding, or dribbling, a live ball, would be allowed to request a timeout during a live ball. The good old days.

Really??? Are you saying that a team couldn't request one when the ball had been placed on the floor by the official to make it at the disposal of that team for a throw-in or a FT?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Nope. #2 and #3 happen at the same time. You have no rules support for your nice little schema. You may desire it to work that way, but according to the rules it doesn't. The ball isn't dead in your step #2. The ball becomes dead in #3 when the whistle blows. The defender made a good steal and your method screws him out of it. The coach wasn't quick enough in making his time-out request. That's all.

I hope that you don't go back and put an extra two seconds on the clock to reflect the time between when you "granted" the time-out before the opponent stole the ball and when you sounded your whistle.

It takes two seconds for you to whistle after deciding to grant a time out?! Wow!

As a matter of fact there's a time differential between deciding to grant a time out and putting air in your whistle. I'm talking a tenth of a second or less. The rules fail to address this gap.

IMO, and in actual practice in my area, the time out should be granted when the team in possession loses the ball during that gap.

FWIW, you have no rules backing for your opinion either.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I disagree 100%. According to the rules, it does matter when the whistle is blown for granting a time-out. This is not a violation of foul which makes the ball become dead prior to the whistle. In this case, the ball isn't dead until the official sounds the whistle.

The ball may not be dead until the whistle blows, but I'm granting that timeout every time.

I do not see how cobbling together 5-8-3 and 6-7-5 means that you cannot grant a timeout and blow the whistle and have those acts be slightly separated. I just don't see overwhelming rules support for your position.

(And of course, I do subscribe to "When it's you against the world, back the world.")

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Nope. #2 and #3 happen at the same time. You have no rules support for your nice little schema. You may desire it to work that way, but according to the rules it doesn't. The ball isn't dead in your step #2. The ball becomes dead in #3 when the whistle blows.

No rules support? The ball isn't dead?

I respectfully beg to differ, Mr. CumquatHead.

Basketball Rules Fundamental #16: - "The official's whistle seldom causes the ball to become dead(it is already dead)."

The ball was dead when the official granted the TO request. And golly-gee, I think that there's a rule that backs that statement up also:
Rule 5-8-3:- "Time-out occurs and the clock, if running, shall be stopped when an official GRANTS a player/head coach's oral or visual request for a time-out.."

What happened after you granted the time-out is part of that time-out.

Rules rulz!!